fighting airlines for tuba damage compensation

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ThomasDodd
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Post by ThomasDodd »

funkcicle wrote:I made my own tuba case after that... it's a lot heavier and incurs overweight fees about 50% of the time, but in 11 flights so far I've had zero damage that I haven't been able to fix with a can of black spraypaint.
Would you be interested in a write up on that case?
Materials and methods used. For example how'd you fit the interior to your horn?
What's the interior lined with?

I need to repair/improve/replace a few cases.
McLain Pray
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Thanks for all the advice, here's answers to some questions

Post by McLain Pray »

Thanks for all of your help. I'll definitely write a letter to the president and include my repairman's expert testimonial. Also, the tuba is on homeowner's, and it sounds like they'll get me a new horn, but I don't want to stick it all on them if I could get something from Northwest.
Just to answer some of your questions: my case was ATA approved, I didn't sign any limited liability agreement, and I watched the inspectors lock it after they inspected it, so it was just mistreated - maybe it fell out when the pilot lowered the landing gear.
Thanks again,
McLain
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Uncle Buck
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Buying a ticket for your tuba

Post by Uncle Buck »

Doc wrote:On the rare occasion I fly w/an instrument, I purchase a seat for it.
I would caution against relying on having an extra seat for your tuba on the plane. Many of you may have gotten away with that sometimes, but the airlines have EVERY right to decide to require you to check the tuba, even if you have purchased a seat for it. There are obvious safety issues with having such a large metal object in an airplane seat.

I know of instances where someone had purchased a seat for their tuba, but the flight crew required him to check the tuba. It's frustrating, but totally within the airlines rights.

When this happens (and you can't really predict when it will), it could leave you in a situation where you are forced to either (1) get off the flight; or (2) check your tuba without it being in a proper flight case, since you were expecting to have it on board.

I think the best solutions are to invest in a good flight case, and to make sure you have insurance.
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Dean E
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Re: fighting airlines for tuba damage compensation

Post by Dean E »

McLain Pray wrote:Over Spring Break, I flew my Mirafone 1291 on Northwest Airlines in a $500 flight case. When I reached my destination, all the case latches and edging were ripped off, hinges bent, and the tuba inside sustained $4300 of damage. . . .
Click here for some general tips on transporting musical instruments from the US TSA (Transportation Security Administration).

I like the idea of getting your own insurance coverage, preferably as a rider to a homeowners or renters liability policy.

Also, a professionally made flight case is mandatory. Last year I witnessed an airline refuse to accept very durable, home-made, plywood containers. The containers were very heavy, but they would have damaged any other luggage that dared touch them when cargo shifted. Who needs the additional worry of having no way to transport your tuba when the plane leaves in one or two hours?

International airlines might cite Article 22 of the Warsaw Convention, which contains a libility cap on baggage (250 FRFs (French francs) per kilogram, converted to a gold standard by the Montreal Additional Protocol 2, now converted to Euros: FRF / 6.55957 = EUR)). If you buy a seat for the tuba, then Article 22, paragraph 3, caps liability at 5,000 French francs per passenger.

Even under the Warsaw Convention, international airlines and their passengers can negotiate (sometimes incorrectly called insurance, when the airline is in fact contracting for a specific warranty), usually for a fee, a higher "declared sum." I haven't flown internationally with a tuba, but I would recommend getting smart about the carrier's policies and options for extra coverage before buying tickets.
Dean E
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Tom
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Post by Tom »

Here's information regarding baggage carriage for Northwest:

Limits of Liability For customers who have traveled on a domestic itinerary (defined as the 48 contiguous United States, Alaska and Hawaii) liability for the loss of, damage to, or delay in the delivery of personal property or luggage is limited to $2,500 per ticketed passenger, unless a higher value was placed on the luggage and applicable charges were paid at the time the property was checked into Northwest's care.

You can read their entire "contract of carriage" here if you wish to:
http://www.nwa.com/plan/contract2.pdf

"When I reached my destination, all the case latches and edging were ripped off, hinges bent, and the tuba inside sustained $4300 of damage."
It makes a difference where you got your $4300 figure, additionally EVERYTHING needs to be in writing...repair estimates, new case cost, potential new tuba cost, etc., etc., etc.
Insurance
An absolute must. Flying or not. Get your horn, gigbag, case, etc. insured. Do it either for what you paid (must provide invoice) or replacement cost, which is what I would suggest. Be sure that it covers theft, vandalism, fire, airline damage, etc., etc., etc. My policy covers everything except insect infestation (honestly...) and it's only $200 something-or-other a year for two horns, flight cases, and gig bags.
Case
If your're going to fly, you have to have one of these:

Image

Image

Image

This won't cut it:

Image

Documentation:

Take tons of pictures before you ever leave on a flight with a camera that can date stamp. Then take pictures of how the horn was packed. It's not a gaurantee that they'll cave in, but pictures never seem to hurt.
Tickets vs. Flight Cases
Yes, some people have purchased seats for their horns and have flown right next to them all over the world. However, for most people that just isn't practical. Buying 1 or 2 seats for a horn, getting them through the airports, security is a bear (good luck getting them through the x-ray machine templates), and actually getting the counter agent and flight attendants to let you take it on the plane is a hastle and a half. On the other hand, getting a flight case on the plane only requires dealing with one person, one time and often additional costs can be totally avoided and it can be loaded as a regular piece of checked baggage. Get a good, real flight case that fits well, pack it carefully, lock it after the inspections. No, it doesn't prevent the horn from being stolen or from being run over by a freak bulldozer that happens to be on the runway, but I think the practicality factor is huge here and that buying seats for tubas is an even bigger risk (what would you do if they refused to allow you to 'seat' your tuba?) than checking them in a flight case.
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Chuck(G)
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Post by Chuck(G) »

...and by no means consider a flight case (such as WJ or Anvil) a substitute for insurance! My brother worked for a time as a baggage handler at O Hare and the stories he told about the stuff that went on when things got "boring" would curl your toenails.
Shockwave
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Post by Shockwave »

One time, my dad checked a tuba as baggage...WITH NO CASE. The worst that happened was a bent 4th valve lever.

On another occasion I packed two very expensive 18" woofers ($1000 each) into a box and checked them as baggage. When I got to my destination, the box was opened and the woofers were completely destroyed and in pieces. Apparently someone thought that these two speakers held face to face with strong zip ties looked like an atomic bomb, so they took the speakers out, cut all the zip ties, inspected the speakers to make sure they werent bombs, and threw them back into the box with the weight of one resting upon the fragile cone of the other. Then, I suppose, my now trashed box became the foundation for a pile of baggage. I discovered that no matter how carefully you pack something, the airline is NOT required to carefully repack something after they inspect it.

Checked baggage is for clothes.

-Eric
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funkcicle
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Post by funkcicle »

ThomasDodd wrote:
funkcicle wrote:I made my own tuba case after that... it's a lot heavier and incurs overweight fees about 50% of the time, but in 11 flights so far I've had zero damage that I haven't been able to fix with a can of black spraypaint.
Would you be interested in a write up on that case?
Materials and methods used. For example how'd you fit the interior to your horn?
What's the interior lined with?

I need to repair/improve/replace a few cases.
absolutely! I'll take some photos and do a quick write-up this week.
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Rick Denney
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Post by Rick Denney »

Doc wrote:On the rare occasion I fly w/an instrument, I purchase a seat for it. It is easy to do.
How do you get it through security? It won't go through the metal detector, won't fit through the X-ray machine, and getting it hand-searched at a busy airport might earn you the wrath of the security people (not to mention the passengers behind you in line).

What if the gate agent won't let you board with it (ticket or no)? Then what do you do with your tuba in a gig bag? It is easy for gate agents to say "no", and if they do, there is nothing you can do about it before the plane departs.

What if it won't fit in the seat? What requirements does the airline put on how it is to be strapped into the seat so that it is not a hazard to the other passengers? I doubt a seat belt would wrap around my Holton, and certainly not in a way that would actually restrain it.

Knowing what I know about airline flight rules, I think this is something that sounds good in theory but likely would turn up real problems in practice.
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Leland
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Post by Leland »

Shockwave wrote:One time, my dad checked a tuba as baggage...WITH NO CASE. The worst that happened was a bent 4th valve lever.
Certainly, they were more careful because they could easily see that the object was something that was quite fragile.

Difficult for them to think the same way about a tuba case.
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