Tiger Plastic Tuba review Bookmark and Share

Musical clipart and multimedia

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Three Valves » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:39 pm

Mack Plastic??
I am committed to the advancement of civil rights, minus the Marxist intimidation and thuggery of BLM.
Three Valves
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 4230
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:44 am
Location: With my fellow Thought Criminals

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby MartyNeilan » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:50 pm

the elephant wrote:Email from the makers:

Hi Mr.Wade Rackley,

Thank you for interested in Tiger plastic instruments.

US retailers have not been determined yet. If you'd like purchase now, place an order on our website and state color option.

Thank you.

Best regards,

Zhong Qiang

Rheinsound (Beijing) Musical Instrument Co.,Ltd
2-7F Meilin Garden 33# Zi-Zhu-Yuan Rd
Beijing P.R.CHINA 100089
Tel: 86-10-885 501 99
Fax: 86-10-885 504 37
http://www.rheinsoundmusic.com" target="_blank


No mention of price in the email. The price on their website was like $1100 last time I looked. That was without shipping. I think that is their equivalent of MSRP and the Alibaba price is more accurate. However, until someone in the US decides to import them in bulk the shipping will still stay very high, price and shipping dropping as order size increases, as with anything else like this. They are not interested in selling to us directly, so stuff is set high. I wonder who will end up seriously marketing these things and what the price will end up being.

Wade,
There is a link in my previous post, that included price:
MartyNeilan wrote:It looks like you could order one from here:
http://www.rheinsoundmusic.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=22&id=8
If I had $960 lying around with nothing better to do I would give it a try, but the $350 shipping is a bummer.

This would make a great "scooter tuba" if the price and quality were right.
User avatar
MartyNeilan
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 4851
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:06 am
Location: Practicing counting rests.

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby apsapienza » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:59 pm

they already had rotors on the horn, why didn't they put a 5th valve on this thing?
Angelo Sapienza

Adams Solo F-S
User avatar
apsapienza
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:23 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Ulli » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:34 pm

the elephant wrote:No mention of price in the email. The price on their website was like $1100 last time I looked.


Look at 'How is the NAMM show?'

Rheinsound (Beijing) Musical Instrument Co.,Ltd. wrote to me:
Hello Mr. ,
Thank you for interested in Tiger plastic instruments.
We are going to exhibit on NAMM show. Frankfurt music show have not been confirmed yet.
Net weight of tuba is 5.5kg. Price is $960, freight extra.
Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you.
Best regards,
Zhong Qiang

Could anyone test that tuba for me and all interested persons here?
Thank you.
Ulli
Ulli
3 valves
3 valves
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:34 am

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby bisontuba » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:13 pm

Ulli wrote:
the elephant wrote:No mention of price in the email. The price on their website was like $1100 last time I looked.


Look at 'How is the NAMM show?'

Rheinsound (Beijing) Musical Instrument Co.,Ltd. wrote to me:
Hello Mr. ,
Thank you for interested in Tiger plastic instruments.
We are going to exhibit on NAMM show. Frankfurt music show have not been confirmed yet.
Net weight of tuba is 5.5kg. Price is $960, freight extra.
Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you.
Best regards,
Zhong Qiang

Could anyone test that tuba for me and all interested persons here?
Thank you.
Ulli


Hi-
NAMM has come & gone. Unless someone brings one to the Army Tuba Conf. or an ITEA Regional Conf., maybe the Texas Conference (TMEA) might have one there via Brook Mays....
Mark
User avatar
bisontuba
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 4229
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:55 am
Location: Bottom of Lake Erie

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby MartyNeilan » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:33 pm

the elephant wrote:Try to buy a Jeep Wrangler and ask the salesman how to raise and lower the soft top or how to remove the hard top. Ask what the swaybar disconnects and lockers on the Rubicon actually do. Then ask for a demonstration of all this. Chances are that he will manage to un-sell the vehicle. I already knew just about everything to know about my Jeep prior to walking onto the lot. I bought it in under 30 minutes at a decent price. The salesperson managed to badly damage a demo vehicle in the process and learned to either steer her "ups" away from Wranglers or to learn more about Wranglers. (She disconnected and locked up in 4WD and then drove me all over the area in parking lots and in traffic. She smoked the clutch and lockers and put visible divots in the rear tires from all the wheel hop she forced on the vehicle. It was epic. Obviously I purchased a different example that only had 2 miles on the odo and still had the packing plastic on everything.) :twisted:

Most instrument salesmen today seem to be like this. They only know the barest of minimums, usually for the top selling items only. The other "stuff" is that "stuff" that his boss made him drag to the show that he will make zero commission from. So why bother learning anything about stuff that will only waste your time? This is the normal attitude these days. I remember when buying a demo tuba meant that it was probably a super fine example. Back then you had to wait until the circuit of shows was over so they no longer needed this superb, hand-picked example. Now I see horns at shows that play like crap and are not actually fully functional.

Whatever. We are willfully teaching our kids to be like this; we do this to ourselves. :shock:

How true. One of the reasons for the dismal sale of the electric Leaf vehicle is because salesmen don't want to be bothered charging them. They also actively dissuade customers from purchasing them due to additional paperwork involved (because of the charging station that may be installed in their home.)
I have heard way too many reports of $$,$$$ instruments at shows not working just because they need their valves or slides lubricated, or some other simple routine maintenance.
User avatar
MartyNeilan
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 4851
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:06 am
Location: Practicing counting rests.

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby orleansjon » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:16 pm

Donn wrote:
Don't be like this trumpet player -


i saw that you followed up with he's a "great player," Donn, but the phrase you were looking for is "Grammy Award Winning player."

Shezbie didn't damage the muscle in his cheek by puffing them while playing. (If that's what happens then Dizzie would've had to hold both cheeks!)

Shezbie played LOUDLY, for many years. Plain and simple.

So puff if it works for you. Everybody is different.
orleansjon
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:05 pm
Location: new orleans

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Lectron » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:32 am

Hahaha

Great vid :D
Melton 200 -=- Melton 2141 -=- Cerveny 883 Opera -=- Besson 992 -=- MPCs: 3pcs steel (Sellmansberger/Parker)
User avatar
Lectron
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 767
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:25 am
Location: Norway

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby LoyalTubist » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:37 pm

It's not to be a "primary" tuba if you're professional. But, so long as you keep the color conservative (like gold, gray, or black), it would be nice to take on car trips. I noticed they took down the pink one from the website. (Yeah, I'm a stright guy who likes pink. Want to make something of it?) I may seriously consider buying one of these in the next few weeks. I like the black one, to be honest.
________________________________________________________
One tragedy after another one. Will be leaving Needles soon and moving to the Los Angeles area. I am so sorry for anyone planning to do one of the projects in Laughlin I never got to start.
User avatar
LoyalTubist
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 2645
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:49 pm
Location: Needles, California

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby PaulSchmidt » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:30 pm

Hello all

I bought one of the Tiger tubas in February (2015). I paid via PayPal on the Rheinsound Music website, I think the amount was around $900 US, plus roughly $300 for airmail shipping (not a bad price from Beijing to Chicago). I would like to share some of my experiences and answer a few questions about this instrument; hopefully it will be helpful to others.

I also recently posted a 48 minute demonstration and in depth review of the Tiger tuba:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Jx_xCZOLw

or, search YouTube for "Tiger Plastic Tuba - Demonstration & Review"

While I am just an amateur tuba player, I do like my oddball instruments, and when I saw that this tuba was available, I had to have one!

I first tried to find a dealer, or convince a dealer to carry them. Tried all the major ones in the States, but nobody was interested. At that time, Rheinsound Music's website 'contact us' portal was not producing replies to my attempts at contact, but I had a friend in Beijing call them and soon after, I started getting helpful email communications with 'Zhong' at Rheinsound, and I have found that email communications with the manufacturer have been good since that time (thanks, Zhong!). I see that Zhong has also participated in this thread on this forum.

I made my purchase using PayPal on Rheinsound's website. Zhong advised that the black color I chose was not in stock, but that I would not need to wait long. Three days later I received an email saying that my Tiger had just been handed over to the Chinese postal carrier, and I was given a tracking number. A couple days after that, I checked the tracking and saw that the Tiger was already at JFK airport in New York, and had been handed over to US customs. Five or six days later, the post office's truck pulled up with a large cardboard box, and the Tiger had arrived. The Tiger was inside its included gig bag, which was just inside the cardboard box with just a few piece of foam padding here and there. I had to remember that this is a light weight horn made from tough ABS plastic, and since denting was not a possibility, it would have been a waste to put lots of padding in the box. So, very quick shipment and delivery!

The Tiger is made from molded ABS plastic pieces, glued together and painted with what I think is a lacquer finish. The finish seems durable enough if handled reasonably, but being paint it can scrape off, but then it can also be touched up. Rheinsound says that they will provide replacement parts, repair parts and glue, and finish touchup stuff upon request.

I was very worried about the valves, thinking "how can they make plastic valves that work well"? As it turns out, the valve casings have an internal brass sleeve, sort of the way that aluminum car engine blocks still have steel cylinder sleeves. The brass sleeve is glued inside the outer plastic shell of the valve casing. The valve rotor appears to be machined from aluminum (I have read that the rotors are stainless steel, but these are so light weight that I think aluminum is more likely. It appears that the valve rotor has some sort of surface treatment, as it is apparently not plain unfinished metal, but I don't recognize what the finish actually is. It might be plated or anodized or something like that.

Except for the aforementioned metal parts in the valves, the only other metal on the Tiger is in the valve springs, valve linkages, and water key spring.

The Tiger weighs almost exactly 65% of what my Mirphone 186 weighs, but feels like it is a third of the weight.

I am very pleased with how the Tiger sounds, and its intonation is in line with other good mainstream tubas. I find that it plays easier in the high register than any other tuba I own, and is about the same on the low end.

Being plastic, the whole horn has a lot of give and take, in terms of rigidity.....nothing on the instrument is very stiff.....but is has lots of bracing. Some people have commented that they don't care for the look of the large "H" shaped bracket that supports the valve levers, but due to the lack of rigidity I don't think the normal way of supporting these levers would work very well. The valve keys are plastic, but in this instance they appear to be molded from a fiber-filled composite material; these levers are the only plastic parts that are not painted, and they have a tan color.

Some had opined that plastic instruments don't project sound. I don't know where this comes from, since in my experience I have played outdoors with people using p-Bones and plastic trumpets, and could hear them just fine from a distance. I have been to ball games where opposing teams' bands used fiberglass sousaphones in one band and brass ones in the other band, and the difference in sound projection was not too great. I took my Tiger to a rehearsal of a large symphonic band and asked the director to comment on the apparent sound difference when I switched back and forth between the Tiger and my brass German rotary tuba, and he said the Tiger sounded fine to him, and even the French Horns came over later to complement the sound, and they sit on the other side of the group.

I do have a few reservations about some details on this instrument:

- My Tiger's valves were quite sluggish when I received it, and I shot some Hetman rotor oil down the slides, and put some Hetman bearing & linkage oil in the bearings. Rheinsound recommends Al Cass "Fast" oil (a petroleum piston valve oil) for the rotors, and Hetman #12 oil (actually a rotor oil) for the bearings. I took the valves apart (they come apart just like any other rotary valves), cleaned them and re-lubed them using Rheinsound's recommended oils; they then worked just fine. When I later did my YouTube video, I took the valves apart again and ended up using only Hetman oils (the lightest viscosity rotor oil and the lightest viscosity bearing & linkage oil on the bearings.

- My own research suggests that ABS plastic 'might' be negatively affected by prolonged exposure to petroleum based lubricants. I am not sure of Rheinsound is aware of this or not. I also communicated with Hetman, who agreed that there might be some long term damage to the horn if petroleum based oils and slide grease were used, but also suggested that Hetman products are not designed with plastic instruments in mind, either. It is my own guess that non-petroleum (synthetic) valve oils are the best bet for this tuba.

- The front and rear bearing plates on the valves are just holes in the plates, without the usual raised shoulders that provide a greater bearing surface area to deal with the side loads on the rotor spindles. This may result in premature wear on the bearing, but I don't have any expert insight into this, it is just my own thought. Ozwinds in Australia, who is a dealer, told me they are working with Rheinsound to possibly revise the design of the bearings. Having said all that, the valves on my Tiger are working well now.

Should this be purchased and somebody's primary tuba? I think not, unless the person has some physical issues that make handling a brass one either too heavy or risk of dropping the tube is too great.

But I think this instrument is a 'real' and useful one, for all sorts of situations.

Paul
PaulSchmidt
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby barry grrr-ero » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:10 pm

I've listened to three different Youtuba postings now. Just going by these three guys, the horn sounds more secure and focused in the low register than in the upper register. The lower register seems to speak immediately, like a C tuba, and has a pretty beefy 'core' to the sound. Anybody else get the same impression?
barry grrr-ero
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 671
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:40 am

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby bisontuba » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:24 pm

Very comprehensive review--thanks Paul!
Mark
User avatar
bisontuba
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 4229
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:55 am
Location: Bottom of Lake Erie

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby imperialbari » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:39 pm

Could the rotors be hollow thereby allowing stainless steel to appear being light?

Klaus, who will watch the video later
User avatar
imperialbari
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 7461
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:47 am

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby bort » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:45 pm

Pot metal?

After this video, there should be NO questions about how these things are made. Thanks for taking the time (and money) to do this!
Alexander 163 CC
User avatar
bort
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 11087
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:08 pm
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby PaulSchmidt » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:48 pm

I am pretty sure that the rotors are not hollow. But they 'are' machined to have very little excess metal on them. The valve casings are very large, probably due to the larger diameter of the tuning coming into the valve from four directions (remember that the tubing is already a fairly large bore diameter, then add the thickness of the plastic tube walls, then you have to space those tubes further apart when they enter the valves, which means a larger rotor (diameter and depth) to accommodate the greater tube spacing, and hence fairly huge valve cases. If the rotors were simply that massive, they would have lots of inertia and not work very quickly. Rheinsound has taken these huge rotors and machined the living daylights out of them to reduce mass, and they seem to weigh less than smaller tuba brass rotors I have handled in the past.

Stainless steel is quite heavy, and I think that these valves would be heavier than they are if made from stainless.

Having said that, I think the Ozwinds website lists the rotors as being stainless steel, while when I had my friend in Beijing call Rheinsound, she told me that the rotors are aluminum. Zhong at Rheinsound told me that since they had started to make these Tiger tubas, there have been some changes in materials used for the valves, and this is illustrated in the 'valve maintenance' video that Rheinsound has on their website; it shows that the valve rear bearing plate is plastic (nylon or delrin or something like that), whereas my own Tiger uses brass for the back bearing plate. So maybe they tried stainless steel for the rotors originally.

For my own part, I think they would do better if they just used a brass (or bronze actually) rotor and machined it to remove excess material like they already do. In general, valves should not be the same kind of metal as the valve casings, or at least there should be plating, so it is not just brass-on-brass, for example. I have heard that aluminum is not the greatest choice for valve rotors, but having said that I understand that some Thayer valves are aluminum......
PaulSchmidt
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby imperialbari » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:22 pm

Saw the video: Thanks for making it!

What I do not like about the sound is that the decay dies very fast, which in turn tells me that the tuba is not as alive in lower dynamics as I want it to be.

That could be a problem with the playing, but I also listened to the opening of your review of the Wessex Tornister BBb, where I heard a more alive & warm sound and less dying of the decay.

Klaus
User avatar
imperialbari
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 7461
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:47 am

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby Art Hovey » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:57 pm

Guys, Stainless steel is less dense than brass. (Around 7.7 grams per CC for stainless, compared to around 8.4 for brass)
Also, the thermal expansion coefficient for stainless is much less than for brass; just a little over half as great. Seems to me that those properties make it a very good material for rotors.
I would not want aluminum rotors because it will corrode in a wet environment, especially in contact with brass or most other metals. Anodizing will only protect it temporarily, perhaps until the warranty expires.
User avatar
Art Hovey
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 12:28 am
Location: Connecticut

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby bighonkintuba » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:57 am

Interesting and thorough review. Thanks Paul!
bighonkintuba
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:47 pm

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby MartyNeilan » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:50 am

imperialbari wrote:Saw the video: Thanks for making it!

What I do not like about the sound is that the decay dies very fast, which in turn tells me that the tuba is not as alive in lower dynamics as I want it to be.

That could be a problem with the playing, but I also listened to the opening of your review of the Wessex Tornister BBb, where I heard a more alive & warm sound and less dying of the decay.

Klaus

If the tuba continues making a sound after the note stops playing then there is unwanted sympathetic vibration. I fail to understand how that is a benefit. Everything from heavyweight mouthpiece to heavyweight valve caps, extra bracing, "tone rings" to brass strips soldered to the bell has been done to reduce that on overly live horns.
User avatar
MartyNeilan
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 4851
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:06 am
Location: Practicing counting rests.

Re: Tiger Plastic Tuba review

Postby TBow » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:40 am

For what it's worth there is a Dearship opening in Monteral in June. I found an email link on the Rhinesound Dealers web site and sent "Amy" an email. She responded they were planning on opening in June and would have at least one tuba! Montreal is only about a 5 hour drive for me so there may be a road trip in the works!
TBow
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:10 am
Location: New Hampshire

PreviousNext

Return to Media

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest