Poll: Cimbasso--which key?

[Steve Marcus]

Please consider this question for all music that would be more effective/appropriate with cimbasso rather than tuba.

If one had the budget for only one cimbasso to serve for Verdi/Puccini, big band, soundtrack music etc., what key horn would you purchase and why?

[PaulMaybery]

Hi Steve.

I use a cimbasso in F. (5v Wessex aka - Jin Bao)

Rationale for F: Since I already play F tuba (45 years), the transition is close to seamless.
No problem at all in the low register - especially Italian opera literature.

I also use it occasionally as a novelty solo/recital instrument for which it is great.
Tomasi/Lebedev/The Carioca/Makin' Whoopie etc.

Just used it on a symphony/pops show - mostly country/blue grass - and it rocked as the bottom of the 'bone section.

[cambrook]

I think cimbassi fall into 2 categories - somewhat similar to how tubas are either "bass" (F or Eb) or "contrabass" (CC or BBb).

I feel that CC or BBb cimbassi are best suited to soundtracks etc, while F (or Eb) are much better suited for opera and "all music that would be more effective/appropriate with cimbasso rather than tuba".

Unless you are mainly an Eb player I think a F cimbasso is the better choice. Also, most makers of cimbassi have more experience making F instruments than Eb, so they are usually better developed.

[Dan Schultz]

I don't have a clue what key is most appropriate to most of the music a cimbasso is used for. But... I built mine in BBb since that's the key I'm most used to.

It seems to work fine for what I use it for.

[bort]

I've played one cimbasso, ever, so I have no clue.

Question -- do the Eb and F cimbassos have more "cut" through the ensemble than BBb or CC? I can see that as a good or a bad thing. Also, are the BBb and CC horns just tremendous air hogs?

[PaulMaybery]

Hi Brett.

Great question: Some of what may be termed as "cut" can be affected by the choice of MP. On the F for instance, a deeper, say a Geib Helleberg will get you a certain 'gravitas' or depth of sound. A more shallow 'solo' type mouthpiece may help with the "cut." Also, I found that a heavier Monette will be considerably different from a more 'skeletonized' Helleberg. And certainly I find a huge difference with a 'delrin' piece.

Also and wisely, a lot can be said for simply how you approach the horn as to the sound you have in your inner ear. After all, that is already pretty much why one has the sound they do.

Often times, in a show for instance, sound and styles will change from chart to chart. It would be rather inconvenient to be popping mouthpieces in and out and in again just for a little variety in the sound. I find that a Helleberg on the larger side, and a GW "Beltane" on the more shallow end are rather flexible pieces and can get you where you need to be.
Were I in the pit for "Nabucco" or "Trovatore" - I would find the appropriate equipment for the appropriate sound and then stick with it.

The cimbasso can really be an incredible 'chameleon' and let you change timbre so nicely.

[Dan Schultz]

I've played one cimbasso, ever, so I have no clue.

Question -- do the Eb and F cimbassos have more "cut" through the ensemble than BBb or CC? I can see that as a good or a bad thing. Also, are the BBb and CC horns just tremendous air hogs?

Yes... the BBb cimbasso I built is quite and 'air hog'. That being said... I've not played anything other key to compare it to. As far as cutting through the ensemble goes, if I push mine it gets very 'brassy' and trombone-ish instead of haunting and mellow. I think this is just the nature of large amounts of straight tubing.

One thing I've noticed is that the leadpipe (percentage of straight tubing BEFORE the valve section) is VERY long compared to other brass instruments. I think this contributes to some of the 'squirrelyness) of these horns. I'm giving thoughts to putting on a shorter leadpipe and moving the straight tubing to AFTER the valve section.

[bort]

Thanks Paul! Definitely makes sense -- I was actually surprised when I played yours that it so much *other than* making the stereotypical "blatt!" sound. Just by sight, it will probably make people run and hide, but it's actually a VERY nice sound, with the potential for unlimited edge. Very fun, and kind of unfortunate that all I've known to that point is the "movie score RAAAAT RAAAAT RAAAAT! sound."

As for the RM BBb cimbasso... I'm out of breath just looking at the thing!

[Bob Kolada]

I kinda want to vote for a slide F for "classical" cimbasso stuff and a valved Bb for low trombone choir stuff (Bach Fugue in G,...).

[PaulMaybery]

BBb Cimbasso.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HMOKJ5gOw0" target="_blank

In the summers I have the pleasure of working with Steve Call (featured cimbassist on the above link) I'm sure he would enjoy knowing you are checking it out.

Last summer I featured Steve on Minnie the Moocher with the "Great Western Rocky Mountain Brass Band." and found out what it can do in a traditional jazz setting. Albeit that in Silverton, Colorado the elevation is 9300 feet.

Steve's happens to be a BBb and Italian made. A vintage Rampone and Cazzani I believe.
BBb is the logical horn for a New Orleans style jazz band and almost a seamless transition from BBb tuba. Notice Steve uses a neck strap for holding the cimbasso while standing. The instrument is fitted with a ring for a strap. In Italy the players in the Caribinieri Band march with it.

So glad to continually see innovative uses for this wonderful instrument.

[Wyvern]

The is some nice cimbasso playing here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTDEVUlCClk" target="_blank" target="_blank

Personally I find no discernible difference in sound between the F and Eb Wessex cimbasso and always advise customers to buy in the key they are most comfortable playing.

A cimbasso is really a valved contrabass trombone, so that is how it should sound.

[hbcrandy]

My choice would be a cimbasso in Eb. Why? Because I never learned F fingerings.