Thor: big and small bell versions

[chronolith]

Having trouble searching and finding details on the different bell sizes on the Thor:

- Why the change?
- Do they make both models or only the large bell model now?
- Actual sound difference?
- Preferences from those who have played both?

[PaulMaybery]

Ask Roger Lewis.

[Jay Bertolet]

I don't foresee conditions to be favorable to a lowering of prices on Thors any time soon. In fact, down here, I'm seeing the opposite. I have 2 students that play(ed) these horns. One got his new from Brasswind and has been offered more than he paid for it a couple of times, even though he isn't selling it. The second was offered so much for his horn (a truly ridiculous offer) that he was compelled to accept the offer. Taking that money and adding only a little of his own, he was able to purchase a brand new Nirschl 6/4. Thors seem wildly popular right now, I think it's only a matter of time before we start seeing them in the hands of winning candidates in auditions.

[bort]

MW prices are off the charts these days. A brand new silver Thor costs a little over $16,000 these days. That's nutso!

[TubaNerd88]

Sometimes I miss my old Thor because of the so-easy-to-play low register. (I certainly don't miss the sticky valves I dealt with for four years though...)

Having played the "newer" version with the bigger bell recently thanks to a good friend, I could tell quite a difference between his version and the old one I had (smaller bell). The sound was much heavier, and it weighed a ton (physically, but not literally). I remember my old Thor being a lot lighter, and it was silver-plated. My friend's Thor played more like a mini-Baer, in a sense.

Were I to pick up another Thor for my own personal use, I would choose the newer model, hands-down. They just seem a lot closer to what that model is designed to do: Have a monstrous low register that can shake the walls, and be very easy to play in all registers.

[bisontuba]

MW prices are off the charts these days. A brand new silver Thor costs a little over $16,000 these days. That's nutso!

BTW, a new Baer 6450/2 is now over $30,400.....
Mark

[bort]

I didn't buy it to "win" anything.

Well not with that attitude!

[toobagrowl]

Well, they've been available in the US for just shy of 10 years now, so I imagine they could be building up steam!

....and the PT-6/6P has been around for, what, nearly 25 years now? One of my former teachers played an early-model PT-6P (as a workhorse tuba; he had already had his symphony job for 25 years at the time), and at the time (about 15 years ago) he was only one of the few pros playing that model tuba. Sure, there were a sprinkling of serious students and other pros playing them, but they were still not wildly "popular" back then. The piston Hirsbrunners and Meinl-Westons were, as were some of the new-on-the-scene tubas.

What I am saying is that the PT-6/6P has been around for about 25 years, but only been wildly "popular" over the last 10+ years. That model tuba does make a beautiful sound and plays well, but imo, is a bit too 'fluffy' and doesn't project like you'd think it would being a 5/4 "orchestral" tuba. I actually think it is better suited for quintet/chamber use because of that

As for the Thor, I don't really have experience with it. But it seemed to hit the ground "big" and is still going strong less than 10 years later. Maybe after being on the market 12-15 years, they will really "build steam" and "win auditions" ......like the PT-6 did

[joh_tuba]

What I am saying is that the PT-6/6P has been around for about 25 years, but only been wildly "popular" over the last 10+ years. That model tuba does make a beautiful sound and plays well, but imo, is a bit too 'fluffy' and doesn't project like you'd think it would being a 5/4 "orchestral" tuba. I actually think it is better suited for quintet/chamber use because of that

Ease of clarity and response is THE serious critique of the PT6. I actually think the projection is much greater out in the hall than it appears under the bell BUT ease of clarity is admittedly not the best. Has anyone tried swapping a Thor leadpipe/receiver onto a PT6 to tweak the response? Better yet.. the PT605 BBb(or similar) leadpipe might 'fix' the only weakness of a PT6.

I personally prefer the sonic qualities of the PT6 vs a Thor *however* a compelling argument could be made that the strengths of the Thor are better aligned with the demands of an audition environment. The one concern(often expressed and often dismissed by those that own them) is how Thors sound out in a large hall. I can't judge how large a concern that *really* is but I imagine that a strong tasteful tubist can reign in any rough edges that could scare the oboe on the audition committee.

Too long didn't read: I agree that the Thor *might* be an ideal audition tuba.

Final thought: IF the topic of this thread becomes which tuba is 'best aligned with the demands of an audition environment' I would *strongly* argue that the MW2000 is/was the perfect tuba for that job. Ironically, you never see them on the 'won a job' list because nobody can afford them until they have the job.

[chronolith]

I probably should have presented this as a poll (big bell vs. small bell). Seems like there are decent reasons to prefer one or another depending on what you are looking for. Seems also like a strategic move by MW to capitalize on the (ongoing) trend for players to assume that bigger is better. In reality it ends up being a tradeoff for preferences and perception (flawed or otherwise). Those small bell horns may become precious years from now. Maybe not. Whaddaya know... I think there is one for sale right this moment.

+1 Curmudgeon. Sometimes I wonder how many of us are actually currently playing the instrument we thought was the perfect horn for us. Voyage of discovery I guess. One can hope we are not our own worst enemies in that voyage.

------------

This from someone who lost an audition (no pay) on on a Neptune (in a pool that included at least one other Thor player) to a person who played a Thor, and won an audition (beer money only) on a Hirsbrunner clone in a pool that included a Thor.

[bort]

The point is that buying a tuba based on some sort of perceived "statistics" may not be the best path.

I think that *buying* a tuba this way is not a great idea. But using a heuristic approach when shopping is not a bad idea at all (for example, if a person wants a CC tuba for orchestra, and sees a ton of PT-6's being used in auditions/jobs, then why not strongly explore that as an option?) No, there is no guarantee that it's going to work for you (because of personal preferences), but it is smart to start the search based on whatever background knowledge you have or can gain, and work from there.

[Jay Bertolet]

I really empathize with the comments about how testing tubas is a journey of sorts. That is so true! For me personally, I have studied with some of the greats in the tuba world. Of course, many of them they gave me advice about how to pick a horn and what to look for. A roundly held concept was, generally, you don't want a BAT for your daily instrument. Get a big howitzer but save it for when you really need it. So why is it that I'm now using a Nirschl 6/4 almost exclusively (except when playing obvious bass tuba repertoire or cimbasso repertoire)? Maybe I'm just dumb but for me, this horn does it all. That's why I tell all my students that part of the journey is that you MUST play instruments for yourself to really know how they will work for you. There is no substitute.

[Lee Stofer]

I have only had experience with the original, smaller-bell version, as I took about 8 months to refurbish one that had been in an accident. I think that the fact that some joints were not soldered together well would make a bit more difference in overall quality and playability than the small difference in bell diameter. Also, the leadpipe was not round, and rounding-out the leadpipe made a tremendous difference in how it played. The end result was an instrument that I took out to two rehearsals and a concert (pro gig), and I couldn't have been more pleased with it. It had a power and presence reminiscent of a really good old Alex. In FF and FFF passages one could pound the low notes like an anti-aircraft gun without the intonation or tone quality suffering (lots of hammer tone, ja, sure), and although I found it more of a chore to play very lightly than my regular instrument, this instrument could do anything called for in a medium-to-large ensemble.

The Thor is quite an instrument, and I couldn't imagine wanting a larger bell than the original.