Heavy modifications to a Conn 25J

[tylerferris1213]

Based on the feedback so far, I will probably opt to keep it in BBb. I'd still like it to be a front valve instrument with 5 valves, though. With the right technician, both of these could be done without affecting the original sound of the instrument.

[The Big Ben]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26292" target="_blank

Here it is. This guy cut a 20J to CC.

Ah. Now I remember seeing and commenting on this one. It did come out pretty well but the OP didn't mention anything about the tuning. Couple of more experienced hands also mentioned how fraught with hazard such an exercise might be.

[tylerferris1213]

After reading other threads, I'll definitely NOT be cutting it to CC, unless I find something that proves it can be done.

[roweenie]

Conn's are GREAT tubas. I've never played one on a regular basis, but if I hadn't bought this York I bought a Conn was probably my next thought, because they're massive, have a magical sound, and they're a joy to play.

Good luck,
Zac

How can you know how "GREAT" and how much of a "joy to play" Conn tubas are, if you've "never played one on a regular basis"?

Just curious.....

[The Big Ben]

Based on the feedback so far, I will probably opt to keep it in BBb. I'd still like it to be a front valve instrument with 5 valves, though. With the right technician, both of these could be done without affecting the original sound of the instrument.

Art's project shows that is relatively easy. I'd suggest selling the 25J untouched and get a 20J for the project. A 25J is worth quite a bit more than a 20J because of 4 valves (and upright bell). A 20J would go from 3v top loader to 4v front loader. You might even be able to finance much of the 20J conversion by selling the 24/5J.

[tylerferris1213]

If I follow that course of action, how hard would it be to find another short action valve for a 20J? Also, it seems like most 20J's almost all have recording bells. This is based off of what I see on Tubenet. It seems like it would be just as costly to add 2 valves to a 20J.

[Lee Stofer]

My suggestion would be to play the 25J and be content with it for the time being. If dent-free & clean with properly regulated valves, there is not reason for this instrument to have any significant tuning issues. If it is old-enough to have the short leadpipe, then it should be played with one Conn tuning bit. This alone will cure the intonation problems on many Conn 2XJ's, including the flat F at the bottom of the staff. I have played numerous professional gigs with a Conn 20/21/24 or 25J, including with an orchestra, and I see nothing wrong with using upright valves. I started music with piano lessons, and the right hand position is rather similar. It occurs to me that it would be more awkward to hold my arm way out in front of me and "pull" on the valves than to have my arm and hand in close to my body.

I have been told that a couple of the top "tuba cutters" refuse to cut a Conn 2XJ or Martin Mammoth to CC, and with good reason. The layout of the valves and bracing really do make a difference in how a tuba plays, even if you manage to cut an instrument in such a way as to maintain a good-enough proportion of tapers to make it play well. And, even when you get the dimensions right, adding, removing or moving a brace will make a big difference in response and intonation. I have worked at this long enough to have a theory of construction that generally works well, but a bit of trial-and-error is required to really get it right. I have cut one 1914 Conn BBb to CC and it works quite well, but is not quite as point-and-shoot as a Thor or a Mirafone 188. I have cut one Martin Mammoth to a 4-front-piston CC, and it plays like a dream. The amount of work required to cut and re-taper all those Martin branches was a really challenging job. To get each of these tubas to this point took approximately $8,000.00 - $10,000.00 of work plus parts, so there really are no shortcuts.

Kanstul has made reproduction detachable bells for several older horns, but not a complete one-piece 2XJ bell. That said, there might be a possibility of having someone remove the tenon and receiver set and braze the two halves together, and finish it into a one-piece bell. That would not be cheap, either, but would essentially be a Conn Grand Orchestral bell.

[Tubajug]

What TheBigBen was referring to was that if you're going to make it a front-action horn, you would be replacing the valve-set anyway, and thus could just use a three-valve 20J instead of your current top-action horn. You wouldn't be able to take the top action set and flip it to the side, you will need a whole new valve-set.

[The Big Ben]

What TheBigBen was referring to was that if you're going to make it a front-action horn, you would be replacing the valve-set anyway, and thus could just use a three-valve 20J instead of your current top-action horn. You wouldn't be able to take the top action set and flip it to the side, you will need a whole new valve-set.

Yes! Look at the link to Art Hovey's site and see what he did. He found a 4v set from a Jupiter and was able to put it together on the 20J body. Art used a recording bell but the upright bell of the 25J fits on the 20J body. A 20J body with an upright bell is a 21J. Selling the 25J might be able to finance the front valve conversion of the 20J with a 4v valve set.

Lee Stofer probably has given the best advice. If you want to put together a Frankentuba like Art did just to see if you can do it, have a ball! But expecting the cost to result ratio to be positive might be a little much to ask.

[tylerferris1213]

I'd like to thank everyone for the advice. It's greatly appreciated, and i've learned a lot! I'll keep the horn as is. I may troll around and see if I can find a front-action valve set, but I'll keep using the school's PT-5 for orchestra for now.

[ken k]

here is one already done for you at Dillons, actually it came that way originally....

http://www.dillonmusic.com/p-22760-conn ... -tuba.aspx" target="_blank


k

[Chadtuba]

here is one already done for you at Dillons, actually it came that way originally....

http://www.dillonmusic.com/p-22760-conn ... -tuba.aspx" target="_blank" target="_blank


k

Does anybody know anything about this horn? I'm shopping and intrigued by this horn but without the ability to play it, but it fits within the budget.

[roweenie]

I have been told that a couple of the top "tuba cutters" refuse to cut a Conn 2XJ or Martin Mammoth to CC, and with good reason.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The amount of work required to cut and re-taper all those Martin branches was a really challenging job. To get each of these tubas to this point took approximately $8,000.00 - $10,000.00 of work plus parts, so there really are no shortcuts.

+1

(The quote above is extremely sage advice, BTW.)

Furthermore, should you want to stay with a BBb horn, there is no shortage (relatively speaking) of 4 valve side action 6/4 BBb Conn tubas still out there. Why take a chance on something like this (unless you really have the Jones to dig into a project), when you could buy an existing one for far less money and risk?

Also, 4 valve side action clusters of a suitable bore are pretty scarce, unless you are willing to drop some big coin on a German-made set.

Just my $.02

[The Big Ben]

Also, 4 valve side action clusters of a suitable bore are pretty scarce, unless you are willing to drop some big coin on a German-made set.

Or get lucky like Art did. Art's creations are "frugal" and use what is available at the time. He ran across a good (Correction: MM valve section) with a suitable bore and price on eBay and went from there. I think he had another one in his collection at one time where he put a 186BBb valve section on a big Conn or King. If you were looking to create a 'concert quality orchestral tuba, you would have to be particular in the parts you use. If you were working with a Holton 345 3v (I think it has a different model number) BBb and were looking to fix all of its problems and adding one or two valves to turn it into a 'concert quality' 6/4 BBb horn, you would want the best parts and craftsmanship and may go for all new parts for the valve sets. Same with the big upright 3v Yorks, Some say just getting them to work as 3v horns at 100% is good enough which others change 'em around to 4v or 5v front loading instruments. Owners wit passible instrument repair skills seem to do better at this sort to ting.

[roweenie]

I believe Mr. Hovey used the valve set from an MM tuba for that Conn project (TU-2000, to be exact, according to his website).

[The Big Ben]

Correct and will be noted.