What are the uses for tuba mutes?

[TubaKen]

Since you asked for opinions, and in spite of PaulMaybery's thoughtful, reasoned response, I have the following to say: MUTES SUCK! This opinion has been shared with me by more than one pro. They're just a pain to schlepp around, and (as was mentioned), a lot of composers just use them to make the tuba soft (note to budding composers: I can already play so soft you can't hear me from fifteen feet away.)
The concert we just finished playing included Bernstein 1, which has two short notes that are muted. I had to bring the damn thing to each rehearsal and concert for those two notes (a not uncommon occurrence.) One of the cellist's said to me "ooh, that's the coolest mute ever". No. No it is not.

[roweenie]

Speaking of "mute"...

How many of us are old enough to remember when people would walk up to us, say nothing, hand us one of these little cards, and wait ?


obverse


reverse

bloke "At least, you got something for your money, and didn't have to listen to that same old store about 'gas/bus money to go see my child in the hospital'."

Not only do I remember these, several years ago a young man tried to rob me using this scam. As I produced my wallet to give him a buck (yeah, I'm a chump), he grabbed my wallet and ran. Little did he know I would go after him. He tried to weave in and out between parked cars (this was in Manhattan), but it had recently snowed, and he slipped and fell on the ground.

He looked hungry, so I offered him a couple of knuckle sandwiches, and he ate them heartily. As a "thank you" for my generosity, he returned my wallet to me.

Then I went to McSorely's and had a light and a dark.

[tbn.al]

During said gig at the new Porsche NA Headquarters last night another use for tuba mutes was discovered. They make a great roadblock that must be moved several times prior to the performance to allow late arriving trumpet players, percussionists, sound people and various other clowns access to the rear of the stage.

[PaulMaybery]

Ah yes!!! We do have 'real estate' issues when it comes to finding space on the stage for all of our toys, though nothing compared to percussionists. In several symphonic bands in which I play, the percussion section has the complete back row from side wing to side wing. I love to move their stuff to get to my seat - as I schlepp, in several trips, my tuba rest, folder and junk bag, and finally my 6/4 BAT, through marimbas, xylophones and all sorts of horizontal 'crapolla' (I smile and grin at them.)

But for some reason it seems we (tubaists) can be walked all over and expected to keep moving our stuff, though sometimes I can be the jerk and simply refuse. (I'm sure that is the 'raison' for most of the hatred of tuba mutes)

At a recent rehearsal I had a miscreant bassoonist step on the tuba bell as he passed by - and was totally unaware. I confronted him and asked if he would mind if I sat on his bassoon? He is a good friend and a peach of a guy, but those things happen when things are stupidly crowded or not thoughtfully set up.

One more pet peeve. Because of schlepping a ton of tuba crap/mutes/stands/cimbasso etc, etc, I usually arrive pretty early to the gig (about 30 to 45 minutes.) I unpack and systematically set up my 'turf' and then warm up. At the end of the gig, invariably, everyone else cases and crap are piled on or blocking my cases. Usually this means I carelessly move it aside to retrieve my stuff. Sometimes it is difficult to stay on good terms with one's colleagues. But then being considerate is indeed a 'two way street.'

[tubeast]

BBruce107,
I´m sure there´s TONS of material around on the use of mutes for trumpets, trombones, and french horns.
Whatever is found in those texts will apply to Tuba mutes as well. The different mutes (harmon, straight, cup,...) have very distinct effects on the instrument´s sound.
Pro Level British Brass Band repertoire often makes effective use of mutes, and Youtube might come up with good examples.

Hans

[Rick Denney]

Ah yes!!! We do have 'real estate' issues when it comes to finding space on the stage for all of our toys, though nothing compared to percussionists. In several symphonic bands in which I play, the percussion section has the complete back row from side wing to side wing. I love to move their stuff to get to my seat - as I schlepp, in several trips, my tuba rest, folder and junk bag, and finally my 6/4 BAT, through marimbas, xylophones and all sorts of horizontal 'crapolla' (I smile and grin at them.)

But for some reason it seems we (tubaists) can be walked all over and expected to keep moving our stuff, though sometimes I can be the jerk and simply refuse. (I'm sure that is the 'raison' for most of the hatred of tuba mutes)

At a recent rehearsal I had a miscreant bassoonist step on the tuba bell as he passed by - and was totally unaware. I confronted him and asked if he would mind if I sat on his bassoon? He is a good friend and a peach of a guy, but those things happen when things are stupidly crowded or not thoughtfully set up.

One more pet peeve. Because of schlepping a ton of tuba crap/mutes/stands/cimbasso etc, etc, I usually arrive pretty early to the gig (about 30 to 45 minutes.) I unpack and systematically set up my 'turf' and then warm up. At the end of the gig, invariably, everyone else cases and crap are piled on or blocking my cases. Usually this means I carelessly move it aside to retrieve my stuff. Sometimes it is difficult to stay on good terms with one's colleagues. But then being considerate is indeed a 'two way street.'

Given the size of my orbit around Tubenet these days, I probably would have missed this thread. But this post--EVERYTHING that is in it--called to me from across the vastness of space, and required me to fly to a lower altitude.

What I don't get (to add to this excellent rant) is why trumpet players demand to have their cases adjacent to their chairs at rehearsals, even the ones who bring only one instrument. They put them behind their chairs, right where I need to put my music stand. And they they keep scooting their chairs back as they play. Oh, I know why they need the case. It's a place to store their damn mute. But it doesn't work--one of them will still invariably drop or kick over a mute during the extended pianissimo.

Back to the topic (not that anyone cares at this point): I own an Apperson mute that Ron made in the early 80's. It's the only mute I could get on short notice when the orchestra in which I was playing programmed a piece that used it (Barber? the memory escapes me). When I first brought it to rehearsal, the conductor broke into a fit of laughter. After I had paid for the mute and express shipping to get it there in time, and considering my pay for that gig (zero), I was pissed.

Near as I could tell, that work wanted an edgy timbre, like a trombone being played loudly, but not actually that loud. In the case of one famous muted passage, the low B in Pictures at an Exhibition, that's exactly the desired effect.

Rick "always up for complaints about the lack of stage etiquette from other musicians" Denney

[eupher61]

Another use for a metal mute: Effectively hide the nuclear bomb you build when your amateur orchestra programs Dvorak 9 for the 3rd year in a row with no other tuba part on the concert.

[iiipopes]

To me, the word "mute" is a misnomer. It is more to change color than to reduce dynamic level. So because it stuffs the bell, MORE air is needed to resonate the mute and obtain the color. The dynamic will usually take care of itself.

Now, if only the trumpet section would integrate that: how many times have I seen in all the bands I have been in over the years when the trumpet section was indicated to mute, that they not only shoved it in as tight as it would go, obliterating any desired resonance or color, then in addition also put their horns down and actually played softer! Instead of a mute, you might as well stuff the bell with cardboard and throw a folded hand towel over the bell.

Color! It is all about change of tone color!

[rodgeman]

Here is Mnozil brass and the tuba is using a mute:

https://youtu.be/bL0lZy3lX0E

[windshieldbug]

In all seriousness, I once had a conversation with a composer about why he called for a mute in a passage that was so loud that the sound change would not be noticed. He (name withheld for obvious reasons) said that he used it at that moment for VISUAL EFFECT!

[imperialbari]

As for non-speaking muted notes:

I remember an article presenting Tom Crown, the mute maker. He told about making straight a bass trombone mute in collaboration with Ed Kleinhammer. The problem note was the low C just above the open pedal, which would not speak. The sore spot of a metal mute is the opening which easily gets bend inward, when the mute is dropped. So TC had made it stronger by making the neck too long and then had folded it back on the inside, so that the opening area had a double layer of metal.

During the experimentation he made a sample without the double layer of metal, and that mute with its fairly sharp edge gave a good response for the low C, to which I can attest, as I have had that Tom Crown aluminum mute for my various bass trombones since 1970.

I have had at least 5 tuba mutes, and none of them have had problems with lack of response on any notes. And that despite the fact that none of them have had exactly sharp edges around the opening. But then there are near endless permutations of tubas and tuba muses, so if I experienced response problems, I would experiment with elongating the mute with a short tubing made of some stiff single ply board (made of paper mass). If that worked, I likely would make some tubing of the same dimensions out of sheet metal.

(The said single ply board is what we call karton and the Germans call Karton. It is widely used in art classes. Some sorts of heavy drawing paper might also work in the test phase, but the moisture will soon ruin paper based material. I have used the inner cardboard tubes from toilet rolls to make my Denis Wick straight horn mute tuneable, and they last quite long, though).

Klaus

[imperialbari]

As for non-speaking muted notes:

I remember an article presenting Tom Crown, the mute maker. He told about making straight a bass trombone mute in collaboration with Ed Kleinhammer. The problem note was the low C just above the open pedal, which would not speak. The sore spot of a metal mute is the opening which easily gets bend inward, when the mute is dropped. So TC had made it stronger by making the neck too long and then had folded it back on the inside, so that the opening area had a double layer of metal.

During the experimentation he made a sample without the double layer of metal, and that mute with its fairly sharp edge gave a good response for the low C, to which I can attest, as I have had that Tom Crown aluminum mute for my various bass trombones since 1970.

I have had at least 5 tuba mutes, and none of them have had problems with lack of response on any notes. And that despite the fact that none of them have had exactly sharp edges around the opening. But then there are near endless permutations of tubas and tuba muses, so if I experienced response problems, I would experiment with elongating the mute with a short tubing made of some stiff single ply board (made of paper mass). If that worked, I likely would make some tubing of the same dimensions out of sheet metal.

(The said single ply board is what we call karton and the Germans call Karton. It is widely used in art classes. Some sorts of heavy drawing paper might also work in the test phase, but the moisture will soon ruin paper based material. I have used the inner cardboard tubes from toilet rolls to make my Denis Wick straight horn mute tuneable, and they last quite long, though).

Klaus

[imperialbari]

As for non-speaking muted notes:

I remember an article presenting Tom Crown, the mute maker. He told about making a straight bass trombone mute in collaboration with Ed Kleinhammer. The problem note was the low C, just above the open pedal, which would not speak. The sore spot of a metal mute is the opening which easily gets bent inwards, when the mute is dropped. So TC had made it stronger by making the neck too long and then had folded it back on the inside, so that the opening area had a double layer of metal.

During the experimentation he made a sample without the double layer of metal, and that mute with its fairly sharp edge gave a good response for the low C, to which I can attest, as I have had that Tom Crown aluminum mute for my various bass trombones since 1970.

I have had at least 5 tuba mutes, and none of them have had problems with lack of response on any notes. And that despite the fact that none of them have had exactly sharp edges around the opening. But then there are near endless permutations of tubas and tuba mutes, so if I experienced response problems, I would experiment with elongating the mute with a short tubing made of some stiff single ply board (made of paper mass). If that worked, I likely would make some tubing of the same dimensions out of sheet metal.

(The said single ply board is what we call karton and the Germans call Karton. It is widely used in art classes. Some sorts of heavy drawing paper might also work in the test phase, but the moisture will soon ruin paper based materials. I have used the inner cardboard tubes from toilet rolls to make my Denis Wick straight horn mute tuneable, and they last quite long, though).

Klaus

[PaulMaybery]

Screen Shot 2015-05-16 at 10.08.58 AM.jpg

Good morning.

Cimbasso/Bass Trombone Adjustable Mute. DYI

The recent post from Imperialbari prompted me to take a few photos of a recent mute project of mine.

A little over a year ago I purchased a Wessex F Cimbasso. Why? Because I 'wanted' one.
I found it not only a Verdi brass bass instrument, but also had a fair amount of potential as a 'cross over' instrument. Thus, finding a suitable mute would be in order. Several of you Tubenetters gave me some good suggestions which got me going on this quest.

Because of good experiences with Denis Wick products I chose to experiment with their
line of mutes. Steve Wick, who also plays cimbasso emailed and recommend the baritone horn straight mute. However, I wanted to have the option of a cup mute attachment. So I ordered their bass trombone - adjustable cup mute. I had a feeling it would need to be modified to work.

First off, the corks were too small for the cimbasso bell. Not a real problem. By fashioning new corks and using adhesive 'Velcro' strips I was able to secure the mute into the cimbasso bell. The new corks are a little over t 3/4 of an inch. You can compare them to the originals in the photos.

Secondly, the length of the mute was too short for the size of the cimbasso. While it did work in the mid range, the sound weekend and became unfocused in the low register. Again, not a real problem. One inch PVC tubing fit perfectly into the opening at the small end of the mute. It is important that the material is rigid otherwise it will vibrate and compromise the sound. A little of trial and error (and the table saw to keep trimming the PVC) and I found a sweet spot at @ 3 inches. I left an additional 2 inches to insert into the cone of the mute.

Next step was to attach additional 'Velcro' strips to both secure the extension to the cone of the mute and to also for attaching the new corks. A guard ring of the softer 'Velcro' was stuck around the end circumference of the extension to protect the bell of the cimbasso upon insertion.

The rough 'Velcro' was attached around the circumference of the extension to meet the insertion point on the cone. This would also form a stop mechanism to keep the extension from falling into the mute. It is hard to see on the photo, but the coarse 'Velcro' strips on the mute itself are about 3 inches up the the taper in between the original corks. There is also a strip of the coarse 'Velcro' to go around the circumference of the small end of the mute to greet the extension. (It also serves as a protective guard when the mute is used in a bass trombone)

For cosmetic purposes I attached some self adhesive black neoprene foam - 2mm. This is available at hobby stores such as Michaels.

Finally, when it is all assembled, the corks actually secure the extension in place. The cup will slide nicely over them and of course is adjustable to give a variety of cup sounds, right down to a whisper. It works just fine as a Cimbasso straight mute as well.

The nice thing about this is that it can be returned to a bass trombone mute in just seconds by simply removing the corks and the extension piece.

Pitch is right on - top to bottom and the sound does not seem to be compromised from the original.

On a separate project I was able to perform a similar procedure on my Apperson aluminum mute.
Albeit, that it does not have a removable cup. The extension piece for that was a 2" diameter metal can (an unusual size - I raided my wife's supply of 'Solo' pastry filling) 'Velcro' was the main product for making this all work.

[Art Hovey]

If you are playing a contrabassoon part on tuba sometimes the right mute can make your sound blend well with the bassoon section.

If you stand the mute on the floor, small end down and wait, someone knocks it over and the entire cello section has heart attacks upon hearing the impact.

[eupher61]

Cell phone holder.

[imperialbari]

Then the stock corks must be oversized for most Bb bass trombones.