False teeth ... and brass instruments

[dave_matheson]

OK, this "friend" I know might need a full set of false teeth in a few years, so my "friend" wanted me to ask how a full set of falsies would affect his ability to play tuba & euphonium .... anyone care to comment?

[pierso20]

OK, this "friend" I know might need a full set of false teeth in a few years, so my "friend" wanted me to ask how a full set of falsies would affect his ability to play tuba & euphonium .... anyone care to comment?

Since you are the OP in this thread, I've always wondered why you find it necessary to post everything in "large" and "bold" usually along with some color added.

When you post in other threads, I tend to automatically look past your posts and not read them. No offense, but most consider such usage as akin to screaming in print and seeking attention.

If you have visual challenges (been there), there are way to increase the overall font size in every browser.

Even more annoying is that you felt the need to respond that way. Who cares? The font size doesn't REALLY matter, does it? Why spend the energy typing that response? People just astound me sometimes.

[Tubba Bubba]

I have issues with my front teeth (periodontal disease). While most of them are still mine, I too was concerned. What I realized is that the tuba mouthpiece actually puts pressure against my gums. Therefore, I feel confident that I will be able to continue playing even after my front teeth fail. I cannot speak for an euphonium mouthpiece. I hope that this helps your friend.

[sousaphone68]

The Euph player in a band I play in has a complete upper and lower set of dentures. He has no problem playing what he does find is that the fixative only lasts for the 2 hour rehearsal.

[pwhitaker]

OK, this "friend" I know might need a full set of false teeth in a few years, so my "friend" wanted me to ask how a full set of falsies would affect his ability to play tuba & euphonium .... anyone care to comment?

Since you are the OP in this thread, I've always wondered why you find it necessary to post everything in "large" and "bold" usually along with some color added.

When you post in other threads, I tend to automatically look past your posts and not read them. No offense, but most consider such usage as akin to screaming in print and seeking attention.

If you have visual challenges (been there), there are way to increase the overall font size in every browser.

Even more annoying is that you felt the need to respond that way. Who cares? The font size doesn't REALLY matter, does it? Why spend the energy typing that response? People just astound me sometimes.

curmudgeon
noun cur·mud·geon \(ˌ)kər-ˈmə-jən\

: a person (especially an old man) who is easily annoyed or angered and who often complains

... Asked and answered

[Donn]

size doesn't REALLY matter, does it?

... the eternal question.

There's an obscure film that undertakes to interview a bunch curmudgeonly types. One of them says "I ... articulate dissatisfaction." Someone has to do it.

I'm kind of hoping to avoid the dentures thing, but who knows. The consolation would be that my teeth are quite snaggled, so as a support for my lips while playing tuba, dentures might be a distinct improvement. As we get older (we = my demographic bulge that's already pretty old), maybe enough of us will be there that we'll be trading reviews of new dentures, instead of mouthpieces.

[dave_matheson]

OK, this "friend" I know might need a full set of false teeth in a few years, so my "friend" wanted me to ask how a full set of falsies would affect his ability to play tuba & euphonium .... anyone care to comment?

Since you are the OP in this thread, I've always wondered why you find it necessary to post everything in "large" and "bold" usually along with some color added.

When you post in other threads, I tend to automatically look past your posts and not read them. No offense, but most consider such usage as akin to screaming in print and seeking attention.

If you have visual challenges (been there), there are way to increase the overall font size in every browser.

wow ... a curmudgeonly response, I love it ...

[dave_matheson]

... thanks Sousaphone 68 ... I'd heard something along those lines .... it does indeed sound like false teeth & blowing into brass instrument mouthpieces ... is do-able ... sort of

[Art Hovey]

Roy Eldridge had a pretty good and long career playing trumpet with false teeth.

[Three Valves]

Straight false teeth must be better than crooked/crowded real ones.

[hup_d_dup]

Among brass instruments, trumpet and horn are probably more problematic than tuba and euphonium/trombone. Some people seem to handle false teeth just fine. One of the most extraordinary examples was Veniamin Margolin, the principle trumpet for many years at the Kirov Theater Orchestra and the Leningrad Philharmonic. Margolin's problems were due mainly to fighting. At fifteen two teeth were broken. Later, in the Army, he lost teeth in two more fights. After leaving the Army and joining Kirov, he got into a street fight and lost all his remaining upper front teeth. On another occasion after losing teeth Margolin got an emergency fix from an orthodontist – on the following day! - and played in The Queen of Spades at the Kirov later that same night.

Despite this recurring damage he is remembered as one of the great symphonic trumpet players of the 20th century.

Hup

[Uncle Markie]

I wouldn't give up just yet if I were you.

There are many famous brass players who played well on dentures - before the advent of dental implants. I substituted for Joe Tarto for nearly a year while he went through the transition. In his case it took several sets of interim dentures while his gums healed and stabilized. Once he a got set that fit properly he came back playing as well as ever. He was 75 at the time and continued until he passed nine years later.

Jack Teagarden played his entire career (from age 18 on) on dentures. So did Frank Rosolino. Bobby Hackett had a lot of bridgework, and so did Armstrong. Benny Goodman played on dentures (clarinet of course) for the last 60 years of his life. So did Clarence Hutchenrider (Glen Gray).

Remember - it's WIND instrument, not a TEETH instrument.

Musicians I know who have had implants have done very well with them; it's a matter of your bone structure (as I understand it) if they will work for you, etc. See a professional!

[dave_matheson]

I appreciate all the very interesting comments.

I stumbled upon an interesting article written by Denis Wick, reminiscing about the various Tubist's he performed with in different bands and orchestras during his life. The LSO had at least one Tubist with false teeth ... here's the excerpt:

..." In 1957, I joined the LSO. Here the brass team was an ill-assorted bunch of individuals; all very good players in their own way, but as a section very inferior to the CBSO that I had left. Our tubist was Hector Vincent Walker, known as Tiggy. He was ex-Scots Guards, a great character and a capable player. He was then 48 and had been in the British army from the age of 14..until he had joined the LSO a year or so before. No college training, but resourceful and incredibly quick on the uptake, with the kind of street wisdom that his career so far had given him.. He played a Boosey Cavalry Model Eb. I remember asking Tiggy “ To what do you owe your tremendous success, Tig?” His reply was :
“Bass’s bitter (beer) false teeth, and 60 (cigarettes) a day” He succumbed to the typically old-soldier smoking habit, however, and died of lung cancer in 1963 at the age of 54 " ...

[Radar]

My stepfather had to give up trumpet when he got full dentures, but it may not be an issue with the larger mouthpiece. Having the dentures anchored to something a post, or possibly leaving a couple of good back teach in place might be an option. i would talk to the dentist and tell him about your concerns. He might be reluctant in most cases to recommend something like this but knowing that the patient is a brass player and this is a concern might change his recommendation.

[bigbob]

Good Morning everyone!
I have NO! teeth on top and still play! I don't play with anyone...but the neighbors don't complane much<s>I still take lessons one a month...I have no problems running up and down the CC scale...I tried with a top denture and everytime I tried to play the low notes my teeth would try to rattle out of my mouth....Sooo I think your friend should have no problem playing after all I don't <S>

[PaulMaybery]

Stability or strength of dental replacements can be one issue. There are solutions such as post implants that might even be stronger than the natural teeth. I am presently doing some research on this. If I live long enough I may need them. Implants were encouraged by my periodontist, but for a semi-retired guy like myself, they are prohibitively expensive.

The other issue that comes to mind, may or may not be all that significant, but for two brass players I know very well, it has been. That is any change to the profile or contour of the surface of the teeth (even a small one that to the dentist that might seem corrective or for cosmetic purposes) will be noticeable. And again this may or may not be a problem. It could be more comfortable. Then again.... (problems)

In the two cases to which I am referring, both players had irregular front teeth that caused pressure points under where the mouthpiece was placed. In mid and low range playing the with new and smoother surface did not seem to be problematic. However, in the extreme upper register where many players tent to grip the mouthpiece tightly, those pressure points were now gone. In a way, the irregular teeth had been gripping inside lip tissue and assisting with the high register buzz. In a way providing an anchor point to more or less stretch the tissue. One lost about 5 notes on the top range. The other gave up all together. For the record, they were a very accomplished trumpet player and the other a very fine horn player.

For tuba fortunately, as was mentioned in an earlier post, the mouthpiece pressure occurs on most mainly over the gums both above and below the teeth. It stands to reason tubaists would be less affected. Euphonium and trombone of course have mps with smaller diameters and so they land over and put pressure on the teeth.

Few of us have "perfect" embouchures and often have irregular teeth as well. We have adapted and found ways to make it all work. Just be aware that when things change, it will not be the same. Not necessarily bad, just different. Sorry if that sounds trite.

I find that my apprehension comes from the realization that most dentists are not brass players who would be sensitive to our issues. If you have one that is, you are fortunate.

Check you embouchure and the pressure you use, and try to diagnose where it is on the profile of your teeth. Do you depend on a certain high spot or other irregularity? If so, address that with the doctor to be sure you have the same profile when you are done.

While those big new teeth look great when you smile, are they realistic for a brass musician?

Hoping this adds just one more perspective.

Paul

[Slamson]

I had a student once who was in a terrible automobile accident. The least of his problems was that his face had been smashed in and his front teeth were toast. He was referred to a brilliant orthodontic surgeon (who also happened to be a wind player, no doubt accounting for his brilliance) who reconstructed his mouth using implants, grafts, and god-knows-what-else. After he started back on the horn his sound became considerably BETTER than it had been before the accident. Was it psychoacoustic, physiologic, or aesthetic? I'm betting on the orthodontist.

In short, find a doc that understands what it means to have a chunk of metal covering your orbicularis for a few hours each day.