Is there any place for tuba in a jazz band?

[chao50]

I would really like to join my high schools Jazz band, but I play tuba. We have a good stringed bass player and a bass trombone. Is there still a role a tuba could fill in a jazz band that has a string bass and bass trombone? The director is open to new ideas as long as they have sound reasoning, and I'm trying to think of a way I could get involved on tuba. If the answer is no because a string bass would fill a tubas role, then I understand. Thank you.

[pierre]

http://stefankac.com/files/text/TubaInJazzBand2.pdf

[chao50]

I'm all for trying to include unusual instruments in jazz band, but I just have no idea what part I would play. Would I play a second bass part and take the written stringed bass part down an octave? Would I just improv bass lines? Would I play the bari sax part? Any suggestions are appreciated!

[Dan Schultz]

Of course. Back in the days before electric amplification most all dance and jazz bands used sousaphones... sometimes two.

I once asked a clinician... Why the hell would I want to sound like a string bass, anyway?! Perhaps the string bass should try to sound like a tuba!

[Polkahero]

Of course. Back in the days before electric amplification most all dance and jazz bands used sousaphones... sometimes two.

I once asked a clinician... Why the hell would I want to sound like a string bass, anyway?! Perhaps the string bass should try to sound like a tuba!

I absolutely loath band directors that tell the tuba section to sound like a string bass when performing orchestral reductions. Sorry sir, but it still sounds like a tuba! Just like electric bassists trying to sound like uprights. . .

[PaulMaybery]

Way back when (in the 1980s) I played tuba with the Mel Torme Orchestra. The parts were more or less an extension, or 6th part, to the sax section and rather difficult at that. The band did have a bass player, piano and drums so the rhythm section was covered. No point in having the tuba double the bass. Mel did most of the arrangements we played and they were exquisite. He told me once that he developed the idea for including the tuba from an earlier group that he played in with Red Barber on tuba and also Gunther Schuller on horn and Jerry Mulligan on bari. He basically carried that type of mellow low end moving sound in his ear. The tuba could also be a 5th part to the trombones as well as a featured solo instrument. A good example was "Blues in the Night" which brought in the solo tuba laying out a blues groove and Mel singing over top. I suppose a very imaginative and talented arranger might be able to retrofit a tuba part to a preexisting chart.

[Art Hovey]

Miles Davis: "Birth of the Cool"

Louis Armstrong: "Louis and the Dukes of Dixieland"

Harvey Phillips with the Sauter-Finegan orchestra.

You just have to get past the "cookie-cutter school jazz band" trap.

[eupher61]

a HS band director is unlikely to take the time to write a part. Besides, copyright issues...

Doubling the bass is not practical. It may be that you simply can't do it. I want to play in the Chicago Symphony, too. Don't count on seeing me there anytime soon.

A hard lesson in the music biz to learn and accept--simply because you WANT to do something,and are able to do it, doesn't mean you'll be able to do it.

To answer the question, sure there is. But, maybe not in your school's band as it exists now.

[swillafew]

Answer: in charts by Gil Evans, yes! In charts by others, not so much!

The band has one bass player for the same reason it has one drummer. When you load up the bottom in this particular style of music, the results are not very likely to have the effect you want. If you want to get in the band, start thinking of yourself as multiplying your options when you learn another instrument. Dizzy Gillespie urged people to learn piano. How can you top Dizzy Gillespie?

[iiipopes]

When I was in high school, nobody, including the school, could afford a bass trombone. We had a great music program, but as always, budgets were tight, and the choice was sousaphone or bass trombone. Well, of course, we had King 'glass souzys because they did double duty on the field as well as in concert. So in jazz band the bass bone parts were played on souzy, and I believe the mouthpiece was the stock King 25 - when that was a proprietary mouthpiece, not a Bach clone, decades before the Conn-Selmer cyborg assimilated everything.

[hup_d_dup]

Your best option is to get up to speed on the bass trombone. It won't get you into the band now, but it will provide you with many opportunities in the future.

Hup

[The Big Ben]

My best friend in HS played tuba in the stage band. We didn't have a bass trombone so he played that part. The director rewrote some of the parts which weren't very effective on the tuba (too high) but that was about it.

Somewhere on TubeNet, there is a review of the Jinbao cimbasso. The review suggested that, with the right mouthpiece, the cimbasso would be a great addition to a group in need of a bass trombone. A tuba player could pretty much step in and play it. Learning the bass trombone sounds like a good idea, too.

[SmartFellerAl]

I played tuba in high school jazz band. I used my regular tuba and played the bass trombone parts down an octave where necessary.If you have a bass trombonist already, just double his parts. It's not rocket science. Makes the section sound pretty awesome, too.

Some high school jazz band arrangements have optional tuba parts, but they're often pretty dumbed down.As if we can't handle "real" parts. Play the bass bone part- it's usually more interesting.

[hduong]

I frequently double on tuba in my jazz band (Tuba and Bass Bone), but only when the tuba part isn't just a sub for bass. It's fun.

[Leto Cruise]

I would advise you to purchase a Nirschl York. Nothing quite like it.

[tubajoe]

In high school jazz band, probably not, sadly. Most high school jazz bands will be set up specifically to play stock arrangements and / or compete at festivals… and adding tuba breaks that mold. BUT, for an adventurous band director, a solid student, tuba of course can be awesome.

To fit into the stock big band setup, there are two ways to do it:

1.) sub for the bass bone. Problem is that tuba does not have that punchy “crack” that a bass bone will have. The parts are usually fairly easy though.

2.) sub for the bari sax. This one is usually my preference whenever I get the chance. The transposition is easy when you get used to it (add 3 sharps and play it “as it looks” just change the clef), and tuba range is very comparable to bari sax for the most part. Again, you get the similar problem of not being as edgy of a sound as a bari, but it’s doable and can sound really cool. The biggest problem is agility — if you do tightly arranged stuff with sax solis where the harmony is tightly controlled you can run into problems tho as the tuba is obviously heavier and a different color.

—probably an ideal way is to double. Learn some bass bone or some bari sax, and then play one of those chairs with both, swapping to tuba as feels/sounds appropriate. Ballads are an especially good place for the tuba to shine.


Other considerations:

As Bass: In a stock jazz band situation, don’t go there unless you have pretty serious technical facility and know what you are doing. It’s a noble pursuit of course, but chances are at this point you’ll hold back the groove of the band. Ensemble horn parts are the best way to go.

Trad/Dixie: Of course that would be awesome if your band director would go there (and they should) sadly, few know how, and fewer do. (but all tuba players should find a way to become familiar with it!)

Specialized arrangements — ala Gil Evans, Kenton, Torme etc…

Gil’s stuff is amongst the best horn writing ever done of any kind ever. It’s also harder than hell and very little of it was published, and much of it was edited / dictated there on the session. I’d say it’s far beyond the range of any high school band (although, again, a noble pursuit if someone would dare).

Kenton (and Hollywood stuff): Used the tuba incredibly well, but those were in “expanded” arrangements where there was often a 2-4 french horns in addition to the usual big band, the tuba was more or less the bottom of the F horn section. An absolutely incredible sound though.

Monk tentet (Live at Town Hall) used tuba more as the bottom of the sax section in a slightly smaller big band.


Biggest thing overall is don't let the tuba become a gimmick. Insist on the director's and band's treating of it as any other instrument.

[swptwo]

https://youtu.be/REryOT53ORU" target="_blank"

[opus37]

I think the answer to your question is really about vision. Your band director has to have the vision to see that a tuba can play the parts and have the skills, time, gumption to make it happen. Sadly, this is a rare situation. As in Bloke's example, sometimes you have to push it a bit. My band director did not have the vision necessary. Push it if you can, but recognize when you hit a brick wall.

[ScottM]

I played in a "big band" style jazz band for three years in college. The student conductor thought it added so wrote parts using the bass line and the trombone lines. It was a lot of fun and it meant I had a chance to broaden my musical experiences. I doubled on bass trumpet occasionally too.
ScottM

[Steve Marcus]

Way back when (in the 1980s) I played tuba with the Mel Torme Orchestra. The parts were more or less an extension, or 6th part, to the sax section and rather difficult at that.Mel did most of the arrangements we played and they were exquisite. He told me once that he developed the idea for including the tuba from an earlier group that he played in with Red Barber on tuba and also Gunther Schuller on horn and Jerry Mulligan on bari. He basically carried that type of mellow low end moving sound in his ear. The tuba could also be a 5th part to the trombones as well as a featured solo instrument. A good example was "Blues in the Night" which brought in the solo tuba laying out a blues groove and Mel singing over top....

Did Mel himself write these charts with tuba, or Marty Paitch, or both of them?