Size does/does not matter

[Chadtuba]

I recently sold a tuba and then today received my new to me tuba shipped to me by Greyhound (thank you for all of the advice over the years about shipping). My new tuba is a Yamaha YBB 621 that I had previously played for about a year in a quintet with the seller. It is a great playing horn and will fit my needs for the time being so I'm very pleased.

I find it quite entertaining that the BBb tuba is significantly smaller than the 983 Eb that I just sold. I also find it entertaining that it is not that much bigger than my euphonium, even though there is an octave difference between the two.

The tuba manufacturing world is interesting. In most other types of instruments they are all the same size and design, except for decorative aspects; a trumpet made by Yamaha is the same size, and looks like a trumpet made by Bach, Getzen, or anybody else. There are so many variations on design and size with tubas. I know it has all been discussed before, I just wanted to put my thoughts on proverbial paper since I had the new tuba and the euphonium side by side this evening.

[eupho]

I agree, it is quite entertaining. Some people use Brit style EEbs as their bass tubas but they are bigger than most Fs. Fs range starting with the MW 182. CCs and BBbs range from the Yammi 621s to the proverbial BATs!

[bearphonium]

I suppose that having more tubing, there are more ways to arrange a tuba than a trumpet. My VMI 201 (upright 4 valve) looks like a Yamaha 321 Euphonium on steroids. (one of the more interesting photos I saw was at a Christmas concert, where the camera angle was such that I was offset from a euphonium player with a silver 321. We both had Santa hats on, and it looked like "big brother" was behind, watching over its "little brother".

I think you'll enjoy the YBB621. One of my friends has one, and after many years of the larger BBb tubas, he loves it.

[PaulMaybery]

Some of you know that I am a musicologist as well as a tuba player. My primary focus has always been on the history and development of the American band movement and its traditions, instruments, literature and performance practice. So as you might imagine, I have spent many "sleepless nights" pondering the "ins and outs" of those subjects. lol

From a historical perspective, that size difference has been going on since the early days of valved brass making. I have several catalogs in my collection of ephemera from the 1850s that show and describe horns of varying degrees of caliber/bore and overall size. There were national differences, most noticeably between the French (small bore) and German (large bore) With immigrant communities in the US, there was then a realistic market for these diverse designs.

With large and small tubas, there is an interesting phenomenon that evolved. In the very old "all brass" bands (saxhorn bands), the initial intent was to use a Bb Bass (euphonium-size) on the upper octave of the bass part, and then the Eb Bass would play the lower notes. (Please bear in mind that the BBb tuba was not used in American bands until the 1880s.) In theory this was fine. But, the Bb Bass did not have the greatest regard in that capacity, (for a number of reasons) so many bands started using 2 Eb Basses: A smaller Eb on the upper octave and a much larger one on the lower. Eventually when the BBb came on the scene, things shifted to having the BBb on the lower octave. (That Bb Bass eventually became the euphonium that we know today) But it's a long and complicated story with many variations and exceptions.

Today we see many examples of Eb tubas, in high or low pitch and in various sizes and valve configuration. The quest is to try to understand what it all meant back then and for us today, what does it mean now with regard to getting the best results from these instruments.

There is no "one answer" and there never was.

When you have a horn that you 'like' and 'does the job', not much else really matters.

[Chadtuba]

You just compared an Eb tuba to a BBb tuba against a range of Bb trumpets (or C trumpets). There's just as much difference between an Eb soprano as a Bb soprano.

I am very aware of this, but the higher pitched Eb soprano, no matter the maker, will still be smaller than the lower pitched Bb soprano. They will also still be shaped in a similar fashion, though I also realize there are more differences in the higher pitched trumpets versus the standard Bb and C trumpets.

If you really want to go down this road to try and prove yourself smarter than the rest of us, and specifically me by the way you worded your reply, then let's simply talk BBb tubas and Bb trumpets. A Bb trumpet made by most any manufacturer will look almost the same as every other Bb trumpet with only minor physical variations but a BBb tuba can be very different in size and shape than other BBb tubas yet still produce the same range. I give you the example of my current YBB 621 compared to your Holton 345. They are the same range tuba, yet there is a huge difference in size. I'm not trying to compare the depth of sound, or what ensemble each horn is better suited for, just rather have a simple discussion of the physical differences between tubas as compared to the rest of the music instrument world.

All of that said, my former 983 Eb is significantly larger in physical size than my current 621 BBb, which is only slightly larger than my Bb Besson euphonium and I find it quite entertaining and all I was trying to do was share my entertainment with others.

[Chadtuba]

I suppose that having more tubing, there are more ways to arrange a tuba than a trumpet. My VMI 201 (upright 4 valve) looks like a Yamaha 321 Euphonium on steroids. (one of the more interesting photos I saw was at a Christmas concert, where the camera angle was such that I was offset from a euphonium player with a silver 321. We both had Santa hats on, and it looked like "big brother" was behind, watching over its "little brother".

I think you'll enjoy the YBB621. One of my friends has one, and after many years of the larger BBb tubas, he loves it.

Thanks for the smile and laugh. I played this particular 621 for quite awhile and loved it at that time and am thoroughly looking forward to using it again on a more permanent basis. Where I am at today the 621 will fit my needs perfectly. I play more euphonium than anything else, but I still like to have a tuba on hand for any needs that may arise and this one will fit the bill perfectly.

[alfredr]

It occurs to me to wonder if one should maybe include in the trumpet class instruments fluglehorns also? Could a flugelhorn be called a 5/4 trumpet? Could the tuba class instruments have developed different names for different sizes or styles? Could they have stuck and stayed through the years? Should we be calling an oval shaped euphonium simply a kaiserhorn?

Or is it as bearphonium suggests, the amount of tubing in a tuba is a bigger canvas on which to paint an instrument? Much more diversity in the tuba class world. Celebrate diversity.

[bigtubby]

...

All of that said, my former 983 Eb is significantly larger in physical size than my current 621 BBb, which is only slightly larger than my Bb Besson euphonium and I find it quite entertaining and all I was trying to do was share my entertainment with others.

I also enjoy the varied designs of (especially old) tubas.

All BBb:

[Jerryleejr]

...

All of that said, my former 983 Eb is significantly larger in physical size than my current 621 BBb, which is only slightly larger than my Bb Besson euphonium and I find it quite entertaining and all I was trying to do was share my entertainment with others.

I also enjoy the varied designs of (especially old) tubas.

All BBb:

Any idea what the small one is?

JJ