Thoughts about starting a community quartet/TE ensemble?

[Michael Bush]

So I'm working on getting up a community Tuba/Euph group. It's starting as a quartet with TubaZac2012 playing one of the euph parts, me on one tuba part, plus two others who are not (as far as I know) among the TNFJ. We are meeting to read some pieces in about three weeks.

This has been in the works for a while, and I've been buying music for it beginning at SERTEC. But other than buying music I don't really know what we need to be doing.

Has anyone here been part of such a group outside an academic environment? Any advice for us?

[thevillagetuba]

Record, listen, record, listen... then repeat.

The biggest struggle I have seen with new/young/inexperienced (in regards to 4tet or 5tet playing) outside of the academic environment is a lack of a uniformed sound and style. Tubas done automatically blend and can often be difficult to listen to if they are the entirety of the group due to how similar their harmonic series are (intervals have a tendency to sound muddier than they are). The best way to overcome this is to record rehearsals and then listen to them as a group to make sure everyone has the same interpretation for everything.

Some groups like having a leader (1st tpt or euph), but I don't think that such is necessary if you guys are respectful and work well together.

[hup_d_dup]

The biggest problem I have encountered with small groups is scheduling. Quintets are usually not the most important groups (or most important activity) in which people participate and finding common rehearsal dates can be very time-consuming. It is a particular nuisance when people do not return e-mail or reply to Doodle Polls promptly.

I suggest that you get a commitment, if possible, from all the members that they agree to rehearse regularly at a specific time and date of each week. Don't try to find different times each week working around other activities . . . it will very quickly drive you crazy.

Hup

[Guest User]

My experience with starting up many groups over the years was that the other members cautiously watched the rest of the group to see how seriously everyone prepared the music. In most cases everyone would be very solid readers, so they would show up and read. At the next rehearsal they would have put in very little time. The better the player the busier they are, and the better players frequently did little to no work because they knew the weaker players would not have it down by "next week" so they could slide.

When everyone does this the group starts to have issues with scheduling and eventually attendance. This sucks.

The BEST way to get stuff moving from day one is...

... to have the group set aside times for rehearsals.
Set up four or five at a time, explaining that these are now set, fully agreed upon by the group. It people have to flake out they will have to be replaced. No BS. It may be a "fun" group, but chamber music is not only not fun when people are missing, but it is largely unplayable. Set this expectation from day one. If they cannot agree to the level of seriousness (or lack thereof) then the group is not a good match. Personality is crucial in chamber music, but so is attitude and the need for similar expectations.

... to set a performance date on the books by the second or third rehearsal.
Same expectations as with rehearsal attendance. You need to have a goal. It does not need to be a week in the future. It can be a couple of months. But you MUST do this. The group becomes a real ensemble with an audience. The players start thinking as a group when they are seen by others as a group. Also, this goal, even if it is a free performance in front of a city building or at the mall - ANYTHING - is crucial to make the members take preparation and attendance as seriously as they have the time for. Many have the time but do not make the commitment. Lining up a chance to play as a group with give them a goal to work towards with a DEADLINE they have to meet and rehearsals they have to prepare for and attend.
_____________________________________

Followup rehearsals and performances are not so important as making sure that everyone is clear about what YOUR goals are, since you are taking the time to do all the setup work. It is YOUR group until that first performance. At that time the others will start to take more of an interest in the social cell that you have become. Setting up subsequent rehearsals and asking that others actually practice the music will be much easier after this first performance has been gotten through. On the darker side, you will also start getting an idea whether anyone you invited is going to be a pain to work with. This also is important.

Finally, once stuff is rolling along you need to allow the natural leaders to take charge, allowing them to also shoulder some of the managerial duties if they want to "run things" or feel the need to interject an opinion into every little aspect of the music. This is only fair. No tuba divas allowed unless they want to work like you. Having a person who decides to run everything and then scoot out the door so that everyone else can put away chairs and stands, who says "whatever" to scheduling meetings with "I don't care, just call me," types of responses need to be replaced. This is destructive to a small ensemble.

Also, if you have purchased hard copies of your music, only play from clean xerox copies that the members can write all over (and lose). You keep your hard copy for reference and replacement. Bring scores to rehearsals to settle arguments or answer questions.

[Michael Bush]

A lot of good lore. Thanks!

[bort]

It's starting as a quartet with TubaZac2012 playing one of the euph parts...

I was wondering what happened to him... he used to post so much, then one day just stopped. As if he found something MORE productive to do with his time...?

[Michael Bush]

It's starting as a quartet with TubaZac2012 playing one of the euph parts...

I was wondering what happened to him... he used to post so much, then one day just stopped. As if he found something MORE productive to do with his time...?

He got a new job and I think he's been working quite a bit.

[Rick Denney]

As a founding member of the TubaMeisters (of San Antonio), there were some lessons we learned the hard way:

1. Don't play gigs where the sound will be swallowed. There is no brilliance in the sound of a tuba-euph ensemble, and you have to be in a venue and situation where the sound can work. We found that outdoors worked quite well for a tuba quartet, even though it puts more importance on proper phrasing.

2. Don't play arrangements that place close harmonies (i.e., thirds) below about the middle of the staff. Below that it turns to mud. When we were two euphs and two contrabass tubas, or one euph and three tubas, we struggled to maintain clarity. When we switched to two euphs, a bass tuba, and a contrabass tuba, things improved. A very strong C player on the upper tuba part can make this work, but leave the BATs at home. Clarity is the number-one sound objective. And consider...

3. The strongest-sounding player, and the guy with the best time, needs to be on the bottom part.

4. Avoid too much of the long-hair music. A TE ensemble is a novelty, and novelties have to be fun. Attempts to be serious have to be balanced by pure entertainment. If it's hard for a brass quintet to be successful just doing the "chamber-music" thing, imagine how hard it would be for a tuba quartet.

5. Play within yourselves. Showing off how high you can play impresses nobody, and sloppy technical passages are just embarrassing. Don't try to explore Sotto Voce boundaries unless you have guys who can play like Mike Forbes and Demondrae Thurmond.

6. Have a portion of the set that is memorized and fully internalized as a group, so that you can play it in a line rather than sitting facing each other.

7. Stand. Learn how to do it, and choose instruments that make it possible. Repeat: Leave the BATs at home.

8. Move. Strolling and sidewalk venues actually work well with a tuba quartet.

9. Talk. Communicating with the audience isn't just about music when playing with such a narrow range of tonal color.

10. Back to the music--play rhythmic stuff with lots of airspace and don't overdo the sonority thing, or you'll sound like a barbershop quartet that can't get enough of its own sound.

11. Don't be afraid of schlock. The Canadian Brass opens every concert (all 20 billion of them) with "Just a Closer Walk With Thee".

12. Learn and memorize "Happy Birthday".

I haven't performed in that group regularly in 22 years, and maybe Ray Grim will float through here and add to what I've written. One thing he might add: If you are playing dance music, get a singer, or find a euphonium player who can sing well.

Rick "respectfully submitted" Denney

[TexTuba]

As a founding member of the TubaMeisters (of San Antonio), there were some lessons we learned the hard way:

1. Don't play gigs where the sound will be swallowed. There is no brilliance in the sound of a tuba-euph ensemble, and you have to be in a venue and situation where the sound can work. We found that outdoors worked quite well for a tuba quartet, even though it puts more importance on proper phrasing.

2. Don't play arrangements that place close harmonies (i.e., thirds) below about the middle of the staff. Below that it turns to mud. When we were two euphs and two contrabass tubas, or one euph and three tubas, we struggled to maintain clarity. When we switched to two euphs, a bass tuba, and a contrabass tuba, things improved. A very strong C player on the upper tuba part can make this work, but leave the BATs at home. Clarity is the number-one sound objective. And consider...

3. The strongest-sounding player, and the guy with the best time, needs to be on the bottom part.

4. Avoid too much of the long-hair music. A TE ensemble is a novelty, and novelties have to be fun. Attempts to be serious have to be balanced by pure entertainment. If it's hard for a brass quintet to be successful just doing the "chamber-music" thing, imagine how hard it would be for a tuba quartet.

5. Play within yourselves. Showing off how high you can play impresses nobody, and sloppy technical passages are just embarrassing. Don't try to explore Sotto Voce boundaries unless you have guys who can play like Mike Forbes and Demondrae Thurmond.

6. Have a portion of the set that is memorized and fully internalized as a group, so that you can play it in a line rather than sitting facing each other.

7. Stand. Learn how to do it, and choose instruments that make it possible. Repeat: Leave the BATs at home.

8. Move. Strolling and sidewalk venues actually work well with a tuba quartet.

9. Talk. Communicating with the audience isn't just about music when playing with such a narrow range of tonal color.

10. Back to the music--play rhythmic stuff with lots of airspace and don't overdo the sonority thing, or you'll sound like a barbershop quartet that can't get enough of its own sound.

11. Don't be afraid of schlock. The Canadian Brass opens every concert (all 20 billion of them) with "Just a Closer Walk With Thee".

12. Learn and memorize "Happy Birthday".

I haven't performed in that group regularly in 22 years, and maybe Ray Grim will float through here and add to what I've written. One thing he might add: If you are playing dance music, get a singer, or find a euphonium player who can sing well.

Rick "respectfully submitted" Denney

This is some of the best advice anyone can receive if he/she is looking to start a group.

[dwaskew]

This is some of the best advice anyone can receive if he/she is looking to start a group.

agreed. +1 to Rick.

[TubaRay]

Props to Rick. Obviously, he knows something about this, as he helped get The TubaMeisters started into what has proven to be a very rewarding venture. No, it hasn't made any of us wealthy, but it sure has been fun.

I believe the single most significant discovery our group made was to do vocals. We are to fortunate have an outstanding lead vocalist, but that is a luxury. The singer doesn't have to be awesome, just able to carry a tune confidently. For those of you unfamiliar with us, we do mostly ethnic festivals(Oktoberfests, etc.). Our repertoire is largely polkas and waltzes, however we mix in a good deal of pop, country, and rock, often with some type of twist away from the norm. We started using shtick as a manner of getting through four hour gigs. The shtick gave us a couple of minutes between tunes, which helped keep us from killing our chops. It also helped smooth things over when we may have a struggle getting music ready, especially when outdoors with the wind to contend with. Although, some of that shtick is essentially the same all the time, much of what we do is play off of each other. We make sure the audience is in on our conversation. Sometimes the most absurd topic works. Of course, we always keep the type of audience we have, in mind. Lot's of kids vs. late, with many beers having already consumed, calls for a different standard.

As stated in an earlier post, it is IMPERATIVE to have goals. Find places to perform. If your group is to be amateur, you can find those gigs easier than we can find for our group. With a few exceptions, we expect to be paid. That presents an entirely different set of challenges. Both amateur and professional groups face a prejudice against tubas. Although I really like our name, it probably prevents us getting some gigs, and keeps the audiences smaller than if we didn't announce that we are tubas. Once people have heard our group, that prejudice disappears. So, your group MUST deliver a competent performance. Don't over program. Rarely do we perform things that are right on the edge of our ability.

And one more thing: Try to get your arrangements to be as varied as possible. Try your best to avoid getting the same sound for every tune. Voicings can change. The first euph doesn't always have to be the lead. Try to get some variation in your sound.

I can hardly wait for our next gig. I truly wish Rick and Ralph were going to be performing with us.

[Three Valves]

I'd hit up the BMW, Mercedes and VW enthusiast meet ups and shows also.

I'm going to one this weekend and would love to hear some oom-pah!!

[TubaZac2012]

It's starting as a quartet with TubaZac2012 playing one of the euph parts...

I was wondering what happened to him... he used to post so much, then one day just stopped. As if he found something MORE productive to do with his time...?

You're sweet to notice my absence. I do get on, but it's like once a week at best. I am working a non desk job now so I can't be on all the time. I miss it at times. Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.

[Michael Bush]

Thanks for all this advice. And thanks to Dennis Askew for popping up in here. I had idle thoughts of doing this before, but it was a conversation with Dennis at the Army Tuba Conference that really inspired me to want to get off my butt and do it.

[imperialbari]

This night I took the occasion to see, if I could come up with an edition that expressed my ideas on this topic. I agree about the avoidance of muddiness, where the best tool is about wide intervals between the two lowest lines. Which in turn implies that a quartet with 2 euphs, bass tuba, and contrabass tuba (or even 3 euphs and contrabass tuba) has much better chances to sound with clarity than a constellation with 2 contrabass tubas. Of course certain virtuoso ensembles can make whatever constellation sound good.

The piece I chose is Thomas Tallis’ motet If Ye Love Me, which is not a traditional love song, but has a religious text. I had edited it in 2012 as part of my modular 4-part settings, but here I have changed the key to make the range more comfortable. Also found a way to increase the intervals between the lower lines, so they are never less than an octave.

Available for free from my Yahoo-based project. If you want an invitation send, me an email address via the button to the right of here.

If you don’t have a full quartet, there are recent uploads of Beethoven’s Trio Opus 87 and of Blazhevich #1 & #43 as duets, both with with several versions involving low brasses and many other instruments. New versions have been added to Beethoven’s 3 Duets WoO 27.

Klaus

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Yor ... Ensembles/

[Alex C]

Play music people recognize and want to hear. Do not ever play anything that has a title that starts with "Quartet for..."

Don't choose music that is too demanding.

• 1) If you feel pain 45 minutes into a 2 hour gig, you are in trouble.
  2) You will get called back if you sound good, not if you attempt "Toccata and Fugue in D minor."
  3) You will get called back if you play music "regular" people know.

Our book has (in order of quantity) pop tunes, Christmas music, traditional music (wedding, party, patriotic, polka), tv and movie themes, marches, light classics. Our latest additions: Sir Duke (a challenge to sight read but some challenge is good after so many years), Game of Thrones Theme and the 20th Century Fox Fanfare (short fanfares are always useful).

Get a gig as soon as you can. Gigs will keep the other members of the quartet interested. Have a few rehearsals to get your act together but musicians want to perform. We have played weddings, holiday parties, birthdays, receptions, mother's day events, valentine's day (our first gig), church events, 25k runs, business openings, civic events, radio, tv and a hundred other types of gigs. In 20 years... less than 10 "concerts."

One person will end up doing the majority of the work. That person will be chasing down all the gigs and obtaining music. It sounds like you might be that person. Are you ready to take that role?

[bort]

You're sweet to notice my absence. I do get on, but it's like once a week at best. I am working a non desk job now so I can't be on all the time. I miss it at times. Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.

Glad to hear it... you can pretty much guess what you've missed around here!

[TubaRay]

Play music people recognize and want to hear. Do not ever play anything that has a title that starts with "Quartet for..."

Don't choose music that is too demanding.

• 1) If you feel pain 45 minutes into a 2 hour gig, you are in trouble.
  2) You will get called back if you sound good, not if you attempt "Toccata and Fugue in D minor."
  3) You will get called back if you play music "regular" people know.

Our book has (in order of quantity) pop tunes, Christmas music, traditional music (wedding, party, patriotic, polka), tv and movie themes, marches, light classics. Our latest additions: Sir Duke (a challenge to sight read but some challenge is good after so many years), Game of Thrones Theme and the 20th Century Fox Fanfare (short fanfares are always useful).

Get a gig as soon as you can. Gigs will keep the other members of the quartet interested. Have a few rehearsals to get your act together but musicians want to perform. We have played weddings, holiday parties, birthdays, receptions, mother's day events, valentine's day (our first gig), church events, 25k runs, business openings, civic events, radio, tv and a hundred other types of gigs. In 20 years... less than 10 "concerts."

One person will end up doing the majority of the work. That person will be chasing down all the gigs and obtaining music. It sounds like you might be that person. Are you ready to take that role?

Excellent post! The first sentence is perhaps the most important.