Instrumental Music Education in Secondary Schools

[The Impaler]

Wow, I can't tell you you cool it is to have people like Tubamom and Charlie weighing in on these issues. Too many times we look just from our side, the musical side, the educator's side, and I just want to way thanks to you parents who give us yet another great insight on these important issues!

BTW, placing in the 30's at BOA in Indy isn't bad at all!!! That's the best of the best from all over the country, and being one of the top forty marching bands in the country is truly something to be proud of!!!

[CJ Krause]

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[TubaRay]

I am very impressed with the posts that have been written on this subject. So far, at least, things have been very civil despite obviously strong feelings that are being expressed. Cale has presented the case for a well-run program with a good sense of priorities. Apparently, his band is able to do a lot without overdoing it. I only wish this were always true. I believe "Tubamom" has a valid perspective, also. She seems to be emphasizing the money a bit more, but this is important, too.

I'd like to respond to Cale's point concerning competition. I hope that in my earlier post I didn't seem to be against competition. I am not against it. Indeed, I believe our educational system seems to want to retreat from this. Why else are some schools doing away with valedictorians, etc.? We wouldn't want some students to realize they aren't as strong academically as some others. I believe that is ridiculous! No, I favor competition. In fact, I favor most of what our bands are doing. My contention is that we, like Tubamom stated, tend to just go completely overboard at times(I don't know if this is uniquely American or not).

Finally, to Cale I would say thanks for your very positive outlook on things. You are quite fortunate to be part of the program you are describing. I hope you never lose your enthusiasm for it. As someone who has been around the block several times, I can tell you that your situation in not universal--not even in the great state of Texas.

[Jeff Miller]

A large part of my professional work is from playing jazz, funk, and other "popular" music. I got my first introduction to these styles of music and the fundamentals behind them from playing in pep and marching bands. I certainly didn't learn as much of these fundamentals from playing Holst, etc in school concert bands.

I think the problem with this question is that it presumes that a classical musician is somehow inherently better than an equally accomplished non-classical musician.

As a freelancer, I work with people from lots of different musical backgrounds, and the ones that are generally considered the most bookable are the ones that are able to play the broadest range of music with the most convincing degree of style.

I think marching, pep, jazz, and classical music all needs to be taught with respect for the musical principles underlying the style and genre.

[TubaRay]

I thought I was finished on this subject. Then Charlie had to go and open up another of my gripes. He brought up the weeks/ months spent learning a marching show in order to be competitive. At least where I am, many bands prepare "their" marching show(note: one show). They play the same <10 min. show at every football game during the month of Sept. and Oct. Except for the band's groupies, everyone else is tired of watching the show after the first couple of weeks. It is the same show with the same music. As a subset to this, I notice that many of the schools I encounter at football games bring two bands. The first band is the poorly prepared one which plays the Star-Spangled Banner, school song, and other stand tunes. The second band is the one which is quite well-prepared and marches at halftime. The "two" bands sound dramatically different.

I'm not saying I am happy with the fact that the band has (through its history) been associated with supporting football games and other such sporting events. I see this as a fact of life. As mentioned elsewhere, more people will see and hear the band at a football game than at any of the concerts. Well, this is generally true, anyway. In many cases, the community is happy to spend the money to support the band. In return, they expect the band to play at the games and such. I'm afraid if it were not for this, most bands would not find ANY support for something done in the name of...ART!

So, I believe we need to acknowledge the truth and realize that those of us who love music are benefactors of a flawed system--one which tends to emphasize sports more than the arts. Can we change that? I don't know. At this time, I believe we have to live with it. So what am I trying to say? I am saying we had better give the public what it feels it is paying for, or face extinction. We had better consider entertaining OUR crowd more and let the chips fall where they may for the contest judges.

If we continue to head in the direction we are going, we have already proven we will run off a lot of good kids. I don't know Charlie's son, but I suspect he is a fine young man. Our approach is running his son off. How many others who don't have such supporting parents are being run off, as well. And, worse yet, we risk losing our programs completely. If we aren't careful, those blasted conservatives, who object to such high taxes(i.e.--ME), may decide that tax dollars are not available for school bands. Though I am a fiscal conservative, I don't expect to withdraw may support, but there are many others who already have. When will we wake up and smell the coffee.

[Tom Mason]

I am amazed that there are so many students out there who want to be in a concert band setting and not march!

I remember the times when the opposite was true. As a band director, I am fighting more to keep kids in concert season as opposed to marching season.

I spent 8 years in a very small Missouri school. Out of a school 6-12 population of around 270 - 325, I had a beginning band of 40ish, a second year group of 15 to 20, and a high school group (8-12) of 45-55. I usually had between 20 and 30 percent of the populationin a band. The best draw for me was the parade band aspect of the group. This included majorettes and flag line who were wind instrument players during concert season.

Many of the previous posts have hit the point that we as directors have to make band fun as well as a learning opportunity. In my experience, this has involved making the marching aspect fun while not demanding upon time for those who were not into marching. As for the hard core marchers who had second thoughts about concert season, I had to adjust the difficulty of my desired repitoire and provide some activities such as pep band as a fun project.

Band is probably coming to the point of a lot of things inmoderation in order to attract the largest number of participants. And as others have said, having the expectations of the director in an acceptable frame of what the students and parents supply is important.

Tom Mason

[The Impaler]

Let me throw one thing in the ring here about the 'fun' factor. 'Fun' is subjective. VERY subjective. For a lot of students, fun is sitting in the back row hiding behind your tuba and talking to your buddies all during band class. To others, fun is an absolutely silent, well-planned and efficient, effective, Revelli-style rehearsal. So we must face the fact that it's impossible to please everyone in your program by catering to what their idea of fun is. Along the same line, it is equally impossible to please the entire audience at a football game no matter what kind of show you might put on.

So, instead of trying to make sure everyone is always happy, and in the process going nuts doing it, we try a larger approach: we must educate our students AND our audiences as to what a highly-developed, aesthetically-pleasing performance really is. How do we do this? By putting things in front of them that they haven't seen before, by making them ask questions. This simple thing gets the community involved in your program. Yes, there are the phone message on the band hall answering machine that rant and rave about, "Why can't you guys just play some nice marches at every game???", BUT, the larger part of our students and audience become interested to the point of finding out more, seeing what's next. It's about creating something that's interesting and entertaining while pushing the aesthetic envelope and being educationally applicable. A very fine line to walk.

Here's the bottom line as I see it. Success is fun for everyone. There isn't anyone I've ever met who didn't enjoy the feeling of accomplishment, or the camaraderie of friends who work together to achieve a common goal and then exceed it. So that's where we try to go. We want our students to have the absolute best music education possible, so we involve them in it at the highest level we can, and take them place where we can further their experience, maturity, and stature. In the past several years our band has been to Los Angeles, London, New Orleans, Washington D.C., Inianapolis, and New York City. And we live right smack in the middle of the dust bowl that is West Texas. It's all about quality. Quality knows no limits.

[TonyTuba]

If we continue to head in the direction we are going, we have already proven we will run off a lot of good kids. I don't know Charlie's son, but I suspect he is a fine young man. Our approach is running his son off. How many others who don't have such supporting parents are being run off, as well. And, worse yet, we risk losing our programs completely. If we aren't careful, those blasted conservatives, who object to such high taxes(i.e.--ME), may decide that tax dollars are not available for school bands. Though I am a fiscal conservative, I don't expect to withdraw may support, but there are many others who already have. When will we wake up and smell the coffee.

I think we need to get something straight, here. We as a profession and society of band nerds are not running off Charlie's kid from band. HIS band director is. Every band director is going to have students and parents that do not buy into their system and philosophy. You can not please everyone. it is not necessarily the fault of everyone. If this one band director is turning kids off to his program, thats his problem, and the problem of the community that it effects.

Since there are no rules and standards for band directing, each band is allowed to run its own way. Either you buy into it or you dont. Sucks if it doesn't work out. I am sure nothing irritates a principal more than getting calls from parents complaining about the stupid band, but parents are eventually the final voice when it concern their kids. I feel bad that Charlies kids situation in band is not working out, but its HIS band directors fault, not the whole worlds fault.

This is such a huge can of worms. there are so many good points being brought up here. marching band is not like it was 20 years ago. it evolved into a more complex thing. it can still be done on a moderate level as to not tie up kids schedules to be a band only lifestyle, but it does require a little more rehearsing than a show designed say 20 years ago. i would bet you that if you took a 200 year old show and gave it to LD Bell HS, they could perfect it in band camp. 30 sets is an opener now.

I like the idea of local shows, with little travel. Some travel is good, though. Kids like to go away for the weekend and crash in hotels and play in big stadiums. Every weekend in October is excessive, but once a year is OK.

BOA sucks. talk about an organization that is so two sided...downplay the competitive aspect, but reward bands that are more visually oriented. BOA is about total package...play well, look good, but you gotta have a big guard spinning flags together and a well designed show. it has more to do with what, than how. No matter how much they try, BOA is the most competitive circuit out there, and not really all that healthy. So much pressure is out there publically to make finals at a regional, its always a let down to not make it. Most kids don't feel all to great after a BOA show, unless they are top 10. BOA is costly, not only in the pocketbooks, but also in the MUSICAL eduacation of our kids. OK, flame away...I know there are som BOAheads that will take issue. (BTW, I have worked with regional finalist bands).

OK, enough for now.

[TonyTuba]

[quote="The Impaler"]
So, instead of trying to make sure everyone is always happy, and in the process going nuts doing it, we try a larger approach: we must educate our students AND our audiences as to what a highly-developed, aesthetically-pleasing performance really is. How do we do this? By putting things in front of them that they haven't seen before, by making them ask questions. This simple thing gets the community involved in your program. Yes, there are the phone message on the band hall answering machine that rant and rave about, "Why can't you guys just play some nice marches at every game???", BUT, the larger part of our students and audience become interested to the point of finding out more, seeing what's next. It's about creating something that's interesting and entertaining while pushing the aesthetic envelope and being educationally applicable. A very fine line to walk.
quote]

Amen, Brother. My roomate is not a musician, and does not understand why high school bands cant just play stairway to heaven (not that rock music usually sounds like crap with school bands). I usually tell him that its because they shouldn't play it, and they dont have to play it. he says" don't they realize more people will like it and think it is cool? " and I say who freaking cares.

The reason HS bands shouldn't play POP music is the same reason why advanced college wind ensembles play modern 20th century wind band crap that is only played on college campus's......because they do not have to sell tickets to survive, and they don't care if there is an audience or not because the ART is already sponsered.

HS bands are in the same boat. the fees are already payed, so the band can play what they want. If they play something artsy and musically advanced, that is awesome. The audience is going to watch it on friday night, and eventually they will like it, learn from it, or go eat a darn hot dog. But who really cares? Its not American Idol, and the band can not be voted off of the field. its not a popularity contest, it is educational, first and foremost. These kids are learning about music and performing, and you can not learn that much from spending four months on She-Bang. Spend Four months on Dvorak, or Hindemith in a marching show, I say.

What you will find, is that people will listen to almost anything if it is GOOD. Quality wins out. People will not care what you play as much if is played and performed well. they will also get into it more when it is done well. people like things that are good.

I am all for giving HS bands the room to be artistic and creative. As a professional musician, it is sooo much more difficult to be creative when you have to work for money, even as a artist. Schools are the place to encourage and promote creative thought and performance. We get better as a society when free thinking thrives, and when simplistic, moronic songs get overshadowed by great music played well. i work with a very creative, musical HS band. I am lucky to be with them. There is more creativity there than in any of my professional work. it is so much younger, fresher and more inspiring. Thats what it is all about. Who cares if Joe Hotdog likes the show at football games...he is not the one responsible for educating our kids to be free thinking, productive citizens of our future.

[Rick Denney]

As in so many things, the thing that sets the best high school apar from the others is socio-economic.

But many draw the wrong conclusion that it's the money that makes the difference. They confuse cause and effect. It seems more likely to me that those who value education and set high academic and educational standards for their kids, and enforce them, are those more likely to have the income that puts them in the part of town with the good schools. The extra money in the school is an effect, not a cause, and that effect is caused by the same thing that makes the students perform better in the first place.

A while ago I posted that music educators justify the value of their programs by the academic value of music. Most here would agree that music can be an academic pursuit cognitively similar to language and speech classes. But then some band directors undermine the argument by emphasizing the "band" thing over the "music" thing, to derive from another post in this thread.

I doubt that "band", per se, has value beyond any other extra-curricular activity, including sports. But music has true academic value, if it is taught like music.

Listening to a band perform music at the end of the year is no test, it seems to me. The real question is not the result, but how they got to that result. Did they hone their musical skills so that they could perform well with reasonable rehearsal? Can they read music at sight? Or were they taught five pieces of music note by note so that they could regurgitate it by rote at contest?

Any study of language involves grammar, vocabulary, and literature. Memorizing and reciting one poem, for example, does not an English class make. Musical training, to fulfill the claim that it is a valid academic subject, must focus on learning grammar, vocabulary, and literature. This requires training on fundamentals of notation and technique, and also requires exposure to lots of music.

I don't think that marching must get in the way of music as an academic exercise. But marching has become like concert season. Instead of learning new music and a new routine every week, which was the norm when I was in school, bands now learn one program and play it over and over again. The reason for this is that contest requires honing the program over a period of weeks.

A happy medium is to make marching an extracurricular activity like sports, and band an academic course. That means band gets a period during the normal school day, but marching band has to do its thing after school just like the sports teams. I don't think the two band directors mentioned by Joe would have given up their values to allow such an approach.

In Texas, it would mean that band class is not subject to no-pass-no-play, but marching band would be.

I'd couple that approach with the elimination of marching-band contests, and the limitation of concert contests to one per year. There would be fewer trophies on the shelf, and the band may be a bit smaller, but the students going through it would be learning music in ways that helped them learn other things, and the music would be part of a rounded education program.

After all, music has always been considered part of a true education, even for non-musical students. But it was literature and technique, not rote memorization, that had educational value.

Rick "who thinks some band directors claim band-as-education and deliver band-as-competitive-sport" Denney

[Tom Mason]

Forgive my apparent lack of knowledge, but when did pop music loose value?

Some of you are attaching value to genre. I would make a stand on the premise that most any genre of music can be used to teach good performance aspects. Dynamics, articulation, phrasing, and rhythm are ALL teachable on any selection of music.

As far as going nuts making people happy, you might find that if a student can name one piece of music that they had fun playing through the year, they probably had fun in band that year. Furthermore, if a student is absolutely thrilled with one piece, then the same student will likely open their eyes to other genres. I got more students to enjoy W. Francis McBeth, Clifton Williams, Robert Jager, and other composers of good wind band music when I threw in something that came from the 60's, 70's or 80's radio scene.

Trying to accomodate a student group in the year is not being wishy washy. It is showing the student that you have some kind of respect for their views. If you get a small crack to stick the prybar in, you can add to their exposure to good music much easier than just slamming it in their faces.

Before I fall off of the soapbox, There will be many more of your students playing in garage bands, churches, and community bands than will be professional musicians. I am more interested in helping the common student love playing after high school. If we make the experience of band a loveless sterile situation, then our future in terms of band in school is more in question.



Tom Mason

[TubaRay]

I vote for Tom's post as the best one on this topic. He has very succinctly stated some very important truths. At least that is how I see it.

Thanks, Tom.