Has anyone worked with carbon fiber to make a case?

[Tubadork]

hey,
The new tuba that I bought came to me in a wooden shell, not a complete case. The interior was just like a regular case, but the outside was just a wood shell.

A friend of mine, who is really handy (I am not, at all) said that we could easily put a plastic shell and latches on it to make it a case.

I was thinking maybe we could use carbon fiber around the wood shell to make an accord style case.

Any ideas on where I could get the carbon fiber, what the cost would be, if it would work etc...

Thanks,
Bill

Ps
I'll post some pics of the shell later and maybe someone will read my other post about pictures from my phone and make my life easier.

[afdsadf]

I don't know the specifics of how carbon fiber stuff is made, but I believe you have to make a mold to wrap it with instead of buying sheets. It loses a lot of strength when you cut it up. Carbon fiber is also pretty expensive to make, so something as big as a tuba case could run quite high. Sample prices: https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.c ... p_cat=1053" target="_blank" target="_blank

It would be pretty light though.

[opus37]

I made and handled carbon fiber products for years. Carbon fiber is very expensive and requires special treatment to use. It is not for a novice. It works great for situations where light and strong are needed. If oriented properly, you can add feel to the item. Think fishing poles. For an instrument case, you would be better off using fiberglass. It is readily available, cheaper to purchase, and much easier to use.

[Ricko]

A few years back we picked up a 'practice horn' for my (then) middle school kid - it was a well used but had 'good bones' - the case was beat up.

After watching too much 'pimp my ride' we decided to try the fiberglass resin and sweatshirt material method on the remnants of the case (like used on custom subwoofer boxex) - it turned out to be a lot more work than we expected with so-so results. It also about doubled the weight of the case.

If we wanted to do a better job - we'd work through some of the West Systems epoxy kits - http://www.westsystem.com" target="_blank - these are higher grade kits used by pros and people serious about building their own boats, etc. You can get fiberglass resin kits at HD, Autozone, etc. if you want to play around a little.

We unloaded the horn and case after high school... deciding to leave this work to pros.

Ricko

[ghmerrill]

If I were to try to build a case, I think I'd look at using the kind of stitch and glue technology used for building kayaks and small boats. Basically, you use thin plywood, stitch pieces (temporarily at least) together, and then glue and laminate everything together using fiberglass resin and fiberglass cloth. In the boat world this yields very strong but very light boats (17' kayak weighing about 35 lbs.). For an instrument case, you could probably use even thinner plywood and end up with something pretty strong.

On the other hand, you'd probably discover that you spent more than it would have cost you to just buy a case. Some of the ones from Allied I think aren't too expensive. Beyond that, unless I was planning on exposing the horn to fairly risky transportation, I'd go with a gig bag for a variety of reasons.

Doing this mainly to "save" or make use of some case innard you happen to have may not be the smartest approach to what you really want.

[Donn]

The interior was just like a regular case, but the outside was just a wood shell.

Pictures might help. Your wood shell in my imagination is artfully made, securely fastened and reinforced, and needs only some handles, maybe hinges and latches, to be a case. Fiberglass makes sense, but only if you need it, because it's heavy and does take some skill to look good.

[roweenie]

I built this case using 5 ply (Halex brand) 6mm plywood, foam rubber from an upholstery store, and case hardware http://www.reliablehardware.com/" target="_blank . The Halex plywood can be ordered through any place that specializes in flooring and supplies.

It traveled with me to Spain with no incidents.

It is probably a little heavier than carbon fiber, but it is a lot cheaper, and probably easier to work with, too. The plywood is incredibly strong for its thickness - I can stand on the large panel with no damage (I weigh around 185 lbs.).

If you were a little more strategic in the placement of the foam rubber than I was, you could probably save a few pounds, that way.

[Donn]

Nice! I think I'm going to save that case hardware link. How did you join the corners, glue? I see there are fillets or whatever you'd call it, wood pieces on the inside corners of the joints, that should help. Are those nails in the hardware, or rivets? Particularly the handle, is that held on with just 4 nails?

[roweenie]

Donn, thanks for your kind words.

Yes, I used 1/2" × 1/2" strips of wood (pine). Actually, they were used as a "frame" to build the box, but I think it wasn't really necessary - at the time, I didn't know there is special channel hardware available to couple the plywood sections together. What you see on the edges is aluminum angle stock, attached with 5/8" sheet metal screws. Just the same, I think it gives it added strength, without adding all that much weight.

If I had known about this stuff, I might not have built it as I did -

http://www.reliablehardware.com/14inchd ... usion.aspx" target="_blank

Everything is fastened with pop rivets and carpenter's glue, except for the handle, which uses machine screws and nuts, and the aforementioned angle stock.

[PMeuph]

I bought my EEb tuba and received a battered wooden case. The joints were all coming apart and the bell area was quite weak . I purchased two cans of resin and several packages of fiberglass cloth and mat.

The mat was easy to apply, but hard to work with as it comes apart easily. The cloth was easier to work with but not as easy to apply and control as I thought.

It added about 15 lbs to the case, but the case survived shipping about 2000 miles through unknown carriers.

It was not the best job ever, and probably makes the case slightly too heavy for everyday carry. (The case and tuba weigh in at about 50 LBS.

Instead of adding carbon fiber have you considered just putting tolex on the outside of your case, or bedliner. That won't give you the strength of an accord case,(Do you really need it) but it will make a functional case.

If you add the weight of carbon fiber or fiberglass, factor in that hardware may need to be replace as it might be too flimsy to hold the extra weight.

[Donn]

If I had known about this stuff, I might not have built it as I did

Not that I know anything about it, but my guess is that your way is much stronger and longer lasting than it would have been with those channel joints. It just occurred to me while writing this that you could line the edge flashing with clear caulk/glue, which would help fasten it and also help protect the joints from moisture in an emergency where you had to use your tuba case as a raft.

I don't think I'm going to build a case for my beat up 1240, but my accordion could sure use a hard case. I might think about a small extra strip that covers the crack between the top and bottom, just because that seems to be a common feature of cases, might be called a "valance."

[aqualung]

my accordion could sure use a hard case.

For an accordion, I'd suggest a concrete burial vault.

[Donn]

Ah ha! and the less you're able to raise it off the ground, the less distance it has to fall!

Accordion cases in North America are invariably too small for my accordion. Too shallow, in particular. Next time I'm in France or Portugal, I'll be shopping for sure, but that might be a while yet. My accordion is of a style that's popular there but real rare anywhere else. On the bright side, this style doesn't use beeswax as a fastener, so they don't melt in the sun the way a Hohner would.

[TubaSailor]

I've been playing with Carbon Fiber / Kevlar for about a year, and I've discovered about 1,902 ways it doesn't work. It is not easy to work with, and even harder to make it look good when it's done. However, I think I'm getting close(r)- I can be taught! The most difficult part is forming and maintaining a shape without making the investment in a mold for each size and shape required. If you have a simple shape you'd like, maybe I could help - e-mail if you'd like to discuss.

TubaSailor

[Tubadork]

This is what it was shipped in.
B

[Donn]

Interesting. Do you have feel for how solid it is?

I think there aren't any latches? and you'll need to temporarily pull the lining out where you're going to install them, so maybe might as well pull it out now so you can see what's under it - how thick the plywood is, how the joints are braced, etc.

I'm thinking the truck bed liner idea might be the winner here, but you'd want to add whatever reinforcements are needed before that goes on.