New member, sharing my BBb 4-valve Cleveland/King Sousaphone

[skyguy]

Hello Tubenet, my name is Kevin. I recently started playing my tuba again after about 6 years of hiatus and I began researching the sousaphone which I have owned for roughly 13 years, leading me to Tubenet.

I currently play in the Nevada County Concert Band (http://nccb.org/)

On to my instrument, pictures first:











The bore is 0.678", the bell joint is 6 1/4", and the Bell is 24". The body and bell seem to match in finish and wear but I am not certain if they are original mates.

The body does not say 'Cleveland' anywhere on it, only 'King made by H.N. White'. The serial number is 75638. According to the King serial numbers it is dated from 1915-1925, however, the Cleveland numbers point toward 1955-1960. I am really not certain what year and model I have and I haven't seen one quite like it (in my limited experience ).

The bell is clearly stamped with the Cleveland logo and has the numbers 4 44575 around the neck joint. I am assuming that those are serial numbers but there is a space between the first number and the final five numbers. Again, assuming that the first number indicates the etched pattern on the bell and/or finish options, the Cleveland numbers 44575 indicate a manufacture date between 1935 and 1940.

Perhaps some well-versed members will have greater insight for me.


-Kevin

[dmmorris]

That rig is probably my holy grail Sousaphone.

T'is a beauty!

Let me know if...................

[bigtubby]

Welcome Kevin, that is an instrument you will want to hang on to!

That rig is probably my holy grail Sousaphone.

T'is a beauty!

Let me know if...................

Yes the King Symphony 12xx/23xx are wonderful horns.

I managed to find a 26" King bell front sousaphone bell and fabricated a setup which allows conversion of my 1258 to effectively a 1251. Sounds and plays great in either configuration.

[skyguy]

Thank you everyone for the great discussion!

I am guessing that although the valve serial numbers indicate 'King' this is in fact a Cleveland. I just don't think it is a 90 year old tuba as the King serials would indicate.

Additionally, I do think that the bell is most likely a late 30's era because if the extra 4 is added to the serial number it would point toward the Cleveland 629 which appears to have a smaller neck joint of 5 1/2". I could be wrong. *shrug* I will certainly inquire with hnwhite.com and update this thread with any new information.

Sorry dmmorris, I don't think I will ever sell this one .

[bigtubby]

I can't say anything for "certain" (again...I've seen too many "exceptions"), but I just don't think that King was manufacturing those upper valve caps with the felt donut insert area 90 years ago...

Everything but the top caps look identical to my 1258 S.N. 68xxx which is very close in age to the body in OP.

The cap threads didn't change and it seems plausible that they may have been replaced after the originals were knackered by a pair of slip joint pliers or some other misadventure.

[skyguy]

Everything but the top caps look identical to my 1258 S.N. 68xxx which is very close in age to the body in OP.

The cap threads didn't change and it seems plausible that they may have been replaced after the originals were knackered by a pair of slip joint pliers or some other misadventure.

Yes the valve body and slides do look nearly identical to yours except that on mine the length after the tuning slide (where it curves back to begin the circular body) arcs upwards much higher. (beautiful horn, btw!)

[skyguy]

Ah, but his tuning slide is longer!

Why yes it is

It also appears that his tuning slide graduates from a 0.687" bore to 0.750" as mine does.

The only models I see on hnwhite.com with the upward swoop are the Giant 1270 and the Cleveland 629.

[tofu]

I also find it surprising with all the finish options, valve, and bell combinations, we do not see more variation come up on these from time to time, most are silver and brass. Maybe it was like a model T you could have it in any color you liked as long as it was black, maybe the same applied to ordering a King sousaphone, they said you could mix and match, but maybe they made it tough or to expensive for it to be a common thing.

My city band has one - bought new back in 1931, plays great and still in fabulous shape 84 years later. Satin silver finish with a gold wash 24" bell - all original.

[toobagrowl]

Great sousaphone! I agree that the bell (and the upper valve caps - as mentioned by bloke) aren't original to the body. But who cares, they fit, and are all "King" parts. Cleveland = H.N. White = King. Same company

My ultimate sousaphone would be a 4v King Giant. I played an overhauled 3v silver King Giant sousa my last 2 years of h.s. Still the best 5/4 sousa I've ever played.

It's a shame King (now under the Conn-Selmer umbrella) hasn't made some models of tubas/sousas for many decades now.