Need the Perfect Tuba (of Course) for Studio Work

[sliphorn]

Good morning, tuba aficianadi.

I'm in the same position that many of you have no doubt been in. I'm looking at recording sometime soon in the studio and need to consider a new horn. Right now I'm playing a Yamaha 103, which is really a great horn for traditional jazz. That's what I've mostly played on tuba in recent year.

Times have changed, though, and I'm looking for a tuba that meets the following criteria:

1. Records with a BIG sound (at least an acceptably big one, not like my 103)
2. Is relatively small, or tightly wrapped (space is at a premium in my house)
3. Won't cost a fortune (always happy to buy used)

Honestly, sound and price are the most important. Key doesn't matter to me...I can learn that quickly. Maybe key effects the sound more than anything...but then again, the recording studio is a different environment and some of the smaller horns end up recording well.

On a slight tangent, what mics do you tubists prefer when working in the studio?

Thanks!

[UDELBR]

I'd say a Miraclone. It gets the majority of that great Miraphone sound and easy intonation at 1/4 the price of the real McCoy.

As far as "big sound" is concerned, thoughtful mike placement and soundboard work can accomplish a lot, and I feel the 'magic' of big tubas often doesn't stick on tape.

My two cents....

[PaulMaybery]

Having been there with ambient miking and multi track one mic per player: Intonation, Intonation, Intonation. Then maybe ease of response - that being a horn on which you can sound great on your 'worst' day. My thoughts are that 'BIG" is not necessarily 'your friend' in such tight situations. But then - It all depends ...

[tubacorbin]

If I were planning on doing that kind of work I'd jump on buying the Rudy 3/4 for sale here. Don't know the horn specifically, but every Rudy 3/4 I've played has been great. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=67586" target="_blank

[sliphorn]

That horn looks sweet. I don't have the bread for that, though. Miraclone, hmmm? Is that the casual name or what? If so, can you point me toward who makes them?

What are you guy's opinion of Wessex? I'm looking for used, but I've been impressed with their interesting designs.

[tubacorbin]

Wessex, Mack Brass, Dillon's all sell the miraclones. I'd recommend any of those companies.

[UDELBR]

Miraclone, hmmm? Is that the casual name or what? If so, can you point me toward who makes them?

Just the term I've heard used for the Miraphone clones. And since you asked, I recommend Mack Brass, as Tom offers a 7 day trial period where he pays return shipping. Can't go wrong with that.

[hduong]

+1 for the MACK Brass horns. I've tried out a few of the 410 CC tubas that fellow students have at my college and they were pretty impressive.

[pjv]

Also consider a King BBb, Besson Eb or indeed a Miraphone BBb or CC, (though these can have a bit more intonation issues).
I wouldn't worry too much about a big sound.
+1 intonation.
+1 clarity
+1 easy blower.
and if your space has a low ceiling; +1 front bell.

In the studio you're being directly mic'ed and in the post production you can do whatever you want to your sound anyway. Your jobs to make sure it all gets into the mic as neat and clean as possible. A large tuba can actually get in the way of this goal. Can.
If you really need a larger sound a larger mpc can also help in a pinch.
Good luck.

[sliphorn]

Also consider a King BBb, Besson Eb or indeed a Miraphone BBb or CC, (though these can have a bit more intonation issues).
I wouldn't worry too much about a big sound.
+1 intonation.
+1 clarity
+1 easy blower.
and if your space has a low ceiling; +1 front bell.

In the studio you're being directly mic'ed and in the post production you can do whatever you want to your sound anyway. Your jobs to make sure it all gets into the mic as neat and clean as possible. A large tuba can actually get in the way of this goal. Can.
If you really need a larger sound a larger mpc can also help in a pinch.
Good luck.

I was thinking this also. So, forgetting about the big sound thing and using the above priorities you listed, are the Mirophones and Miroclones still a good idea? They seem very large.

Thanks for everyone's responses.

[sliphorn]

Pick up one of these giveaway-priced currently-offered King 2341 tubas...

If they were priced a couple hundred lower, *I* would be buying them to sell *to* you.

I think I'm missing something, but when I look up that tuba I find them for $7000. Seeing as how I can't afford the Miraphone posted above that is cheaper...I definitely can't afford that King. Am I missing something?

[sliphorn]

Also, I can't help but wonder why the Wessex clones are around $1000 more than the Mack ones. Insight?

[bisontuba]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=66274" target="_blank

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=53251&hilit=King" target="_blank

[tubajoe]

I'd say on average, the tone on most recordings is 75% dependent on the production... meaning that the horn selection and your performance are only the beginning of the sound that will end up on the final product. But you wanna give them a solid beginning.

Find a horn that will let you play 'big but clean'. During the production process, most of the time, they crush the tuba sound, but at the same time wont take the time to clean up your part (as they will a drum or vocal track) SO, You want something that has enough body to the sound where they have girth to work with and don't have to add to it, but also one where you can control it enough to keep it sounding tight and precise. (a 4/4 CC is a great way to go for most things in the studio IMHO)

[sliphorn]

More good information. As far as clarity of sound, technique, and articulations go, do you folks mostly prefer pistons or rotors? I believe this is an age-old debate...

[tofu]

RIP
http://www.lastudiomusicians.info/tommyjohnson.htmThis guy did over 2000 movie & tv soundtracks - think "JAWS".

and this guy:

http://www.lastudiomusicians.info/jimself.htm

Has done over 1500 move & tv soundtracks - think "Close Encounters of the Third Kind".

Both used a Mirafone 185 for a lot of those studio sessions. Can play big or small - great low and high range and microphones love it. Compact, easy to handle, easy to blow and met the needs of two of the best studio musicians ever.

[pjv]

True Miraphone 185 is a reliable player. They have the low 5th partial which is very do-able if manipulating your first valve slide is a reflex. They "might" be more difficult to find at a decent price on the 2nd hand market.
King 2341 is easier to find on the 2nd hand market, especially the older style with the detachable bell, doesn't have the low 5th partial, and the few notes that aren't spot on are quite easily played in tune just by, well, playing in tune (using your ear). (The Eastman EBB-534 is a copy of this horn and also does quite well)
I didn't mention Cerveny CBB 683 because I've never played on myself. It also has a good reputation for playing and intonation and is compact as well.

Needless to say; try before you buy!

Good luck.

[sliphorn]

Thanks for all the great feedback so far. Do you folks think pistons or rotors make much difference for recording clarity, smoothness, etc? Hint: this is NOT a trolling question, just a practical one.

[dmmorris]

I know some guys that us the "little" Conn 3J. With the right mic, it's awesome.

+1 for the King BBb.

[Wyvern]

Also, I can't help but wonder why the Wessex clones are around $1000 more than the Mack ones. Insight?

Chinese made brass, even if made in the same factory are not all made to the same standards. The Wessex are made with greater care using higher quality components including gold brass bell and leadpipe. Plus are made under strict quality controls including Wessex musicians from the UK or USA inspecting and play testing every one at factory against tuner before accepting (and reject any not up to standard). That all costs more to guarantee every Wessex being a quality and great playing tuba.