Raw Brass Conversion

[darth2ba]

Hello all,

I've read prior threads here about raw brass vs lacquer vs silver, and the various websites that discuss the differences (esp. with trumpets). I am aware that horn players tend to have the plating removed to improve resonance, warm up the sound, etc.. Out of curiosity, for those who have converted their tuba (with particular interest toward rotor F tubas) from lacquer/silver plate to raw brass, did you like the way your tuba played after the conversion?

Thank you in advance for sharing your experiences/thoughts/opinions. It is greatly appreciated.

All the best,

Joe

[Ed Jones]

I removed the lacquer from a rotary CC tuba many years ago. I didn't notice any difference. I sold a rotary F tuba and played it after the buyer removed the lacquer. I didn't notice any difference.

[Donn]

What if you really cleaned out the inside? I mean, not just most of the sludge, but it's my impression that there's typically a kind of rough, slightly grimy interior to every tuba bell and large bows. Really polishing up the inside might make a lot more difference, eh? since after all that's where the sound is.

[bort]

I have only considered doing this when the lacquer is already spotty and doesn't look very good.

IMO, it is just about appearance, and has nothing to do with sound. But, what do I know!

[windshieldbug]

I stripped the lacquer from my 5/4 orchestral CC.
I could swear it made a difference, but ears out in the hall that I trust and recordings (made by Philly orchestra technician) told me that there was no real change beyond the immediate playing area.
I left it off, because I thought that anything that I & the low brass section heard that made me more confident was worth more than just money.
It does tarnish though, so try just cleaning it up inside & out first and see where that gets you. That might be enough.

[PaulMaybery]

This is an ongoing issue and I find there are multiple factors involved.

1. Horns such the Cerveny are rather thin brass while other American and British tubas tend to be relatively rather thick, so the proportion of lacquer to brass varies... thus the chance of a difference is likely more significant/

2. One of the methods for lacquer removal is ultrasonic cleaning with the tank temp set to above 170F. Usually a quick immersion into the hot tank will cause the lacquer and metal to expand at different rates and the lacquer will crack and the ultra sound will remove it. In the process the interior of the horn is also cleaned. So in this case, what is causing the difference if any?

3. Depending on the era of the instrument some clear finishes were rather thick and sturdy such as Conn Lustre finish. Many of these were acrylic or epoxy. Apples and oranges.

4. Psycho-accoustics. Often times a player will formulate their sound concept by visualization. ex: Big fat sound from a big fat tuba or V.V. Shiny vs dull finish could also contribute a visual element to one's concept. We all draw on some sort of image or model whether we know it or not. Perhaps it is just emulating a great player who happens to be using a certain instrument. I recall Harvey with his little Conn, Toby with his raw brass 184, Jake with his huge silver York. Bell with his rotary King. But in real life these players also had other horns in their arsenal, but we often take a snapshot and freeze it as our model.

5. If you like things a certain way - then go for it. It is personal. If you sound great, that is what will be remembered by other good musicians and maybe they will want to make their tuba look like yours so they can sound as great as you. Same goes for MPs and there is also "gig bag envy" as well. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar (Sigmund Freud) and gear is just gear.

[Donn]

but most of the sludge and lime are found in the mouthpipe, valveset and area just past the valveset.

For sure, normal sludge removal, there isn't any doubt that helps, but has anyone ever tried polishing the inside? My guess is that there'd be no difference in the audible spectrum, but ... ever the skeptic. Someone who's more likely to hear a difference should try it.

[LucGeraats]

I own a Hirsbrunner 290 wich is converted to a raw brass , and I play often on a silver Hirsbrunner 290.

I makes for these instrument, although that is my opinion, a HUGE difference. The raw brass tuba is alot warmer in sound, and the the tuning is easier. Having it in raw brass, it gives me more possibilities in texture.

[bort]

I don't think I would ever be bold enough to take a $xx,xxx tuba and strip the silver plating from it. I'm not saying it didn't make a big difference, and I'm glad it worked out! But I don't see myself every attempting that!

[LucGeraats]

"I don't think I would ever be bold enough to take a $xx,xxx tuba and strip the silver plating from it. I'm not saying it didn't make a big difference, and I'm glad it worked out! But I don't see myself every attempting that!"

Haha, the world needs pioneers

[happyroman]

I don't remember where I read this, but it was probably here, so a search might find the original post. There was a comparison made between raw brass, silver plate, and lacquered instruments. There was no significant difference between the raw brass and silver plate, but in general, the lacquered instruments did not sound as good. The theory was that the layer of silver plate was so thin, due to being applied electrostatically (or in some such manner) it added very little to the thickness of the brass. However, since lacquer is spray applied, it goes on much thicker and is applied to both surfaces of the bell in particular, which tends to deaden the sound.

Some day, after I have made my fortune, I intend to have all of the lacquer stripped from my tuba and have it silver plated.

[darth2ba]

Hello all,

Thank you to those of you who shared your experiences/opinions/thoughts. It is much appreciated. I have thought about what modifications I could do to help improve my F tuba to make it play the way I like, and changing the tuba to raw brass was one possibility. I have also considered raising the lead-pipe off the bell to increase resonance/response. However, at this given moment in time (and in the near future) I have decided not to change my F tuba to raw brass.

Thank you again for all of your experiences/opinions/thoughts.

All the best,

Joe