Who knows this Sousaphone?

[Geert.Drummen]

Bought a Sousaphone with inscription "W.H. Mann, Chicago, USA", big bore, 6.7" tenon diameter, plate stay between first two pistons as thumb holder instead of a ring, only 2 bell screws, broad protection plates, 14.5kg.

Cannot find this instrument maker and Sousaphone on the Internet. No serial number.
Based on the "9." at least 9 similar sousaphone must have been produced.

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Who recognizes this sousaphone and can give more info on origin, age, etc.?

Thanks,
Geert Drummen, Maastricht, The Netherlands

[Dan Schultz]

... It's yet another that resembles the early (pre-war) Buescher designs, but obviously is made in Europe...

Joe... I was initially in touch with the OP and invited him to post here. I share your thinking that this horn was made in Europe. But.... I have learned that I have not seen EVERYTHING.

[Geert.Drummen]

@Bloke : Do you have a picture of that Graslitz Sousaphone?

[Geert.Drummen]

@Curmudgeon: Agree. Have also a Conn22K and a Bundy Selmer, and the thumb plate is better than the thumb rings of both

@Bloke: Thanks! Seems to go in the right direction. Quite some similarities, but also quite some differences: bore, piping around pistons, no thumb plate, 3 instead of 2 bell screws, no big protection plates, decoration of connecting rings. Perhaps I have a later model? Let's not give up our search till we have a "copy". But I will continue based on Graslitz

Many thanks to all of you for your support!!!

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[Geert.Drummen]

@Bloke:

Looks like Graslitz and Hüttl was the right clue.

Following pictures I found using these keywords and they resemble my sousaphone a lot:
- similar protection plating, similar bell, no thumb ring, similar decorations.

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So must be a pre-war A.K.Hüttl from Czechia, or post-war from Germany.

Some Internet quotes about the company:

"Anton Konrad Huttl started his company in 1877. The company advertised in 1913 that they had the largest most modern factory in Austria-Hungary and Germany.
In 1945, the company was Nationalized, and they relocated in South Wales. Huttl, had a factory one in Canada that closed down in the 1970s. Those horns, said Western Germany presumably Baiersdorf, Germany.
The Chris Kratt Instrument Company was an import business marketing Huttl instruments."

"Ignaz Hüttl established in 1878 in Graslitz, Bohemia. Major Brass instrument builder; produced and exported thousands of mostly student-, band- and military band instruments all over the world. After Worldwar II (1939-1945) the company was forced to move to Germany to start all over again, without obtaining much of the previous success. Some instruments have been found dated from 1976."

[humBell]

Sorry for not chiming in earlier. The Hüttl on the red chairs is mine. And i'm happy to have helped indirectly...

Yeah, yours shares the "kayak paddle" braces (for lack of a more precise term) that mine has, which seem to be bent into whatever shape is needed.

The only thing in common that i note between mine and the ebay Hüttl is the valve block that has all the loops coming out one side. That does not have the Buescher style tuning slide above the valve slides.

Anyway, let me know if i can be of any help.

[Donn]

Think the valve section on this LaFleur Eb looks similar?

[humBell]

Think the valve section on this LaFleur Eb looks similar?

Indeed it does, and it seems to have similar braces. Thanks.

"JR LaFleur & Sons established a publishing and dealership in London in 1862, they were bought by Boosey in 1917 but continued in business." -maker page on horn-u-copia.

If they continued in business, the buy out doesn't do much towards narrowing the possible manufacture date...

Does being a dealership mean that possibly they imported some of their instruments? W.H. Mann could have done something similar.

[Donn]

Does being a dealership mean that possibly they imported some of their instruments? W.H. Mann could have done something similar.

Yes, I got the impression that the LaFleur brand was applied to instruments made elsewhere. They may have made some of their own too, but in this case ... a casual surf suggests that this particular instrument kind of stood by itself - nothing but one Eb sousaphone model. I imagine it really did come from some family where you would also find larger sousaphones with similar valves, but you'd find that family at the source, which evidently was not LaFleur.

[Geert.Drummen]

Yes. Same suggestion came from TubaTinker. Like currently with chinese instruments, in the past Czechia exported parts or complete instruments which were rebranded in the US and Western Europe.
Difference with the past is the quality (of chinese instruments). If I understood well Czechia had (before WW2) very good craftsmen and high quality brass (Graslitz had copperworks, producing the famous pur "cement-copper", and sufficient availability of copper and calamine).