Willson 3050RZ

[joh_tuba]

That's clearly not the original factory linkage. It's likely that whoever did the conversion didn't quite get the geometry right.

I would call up Willson and see if they can ship you a new factory linkage as a drop in replacement for what you've got.

Alternatively, let a repairman that is familiar with linkage conversions have a go at making it work better for you.

[bort]

That's clearly not the original factory linkage. It's likely that whoever did the conversion didn't quite get the geometry right.

I would call up Willson and see if they can ship you a new factory linkage as a drop in replacement for what you've got.

Alternatively, let a repairman that is familiar with linkage conversions have a go at making it work better for you.

Thanks... the problem is only with the part where the thumb presses the lever... the "paddle." The linkage isn't a problem at all. Actually, the previous owner (a well-regarded repairman) changed the linkages for 1--4 to Miraphone parts, and left #5 alone. Maybe a different previous owner did something else?

That's the one tricky thing here, there are so few of these it's almost impossible to tell what the stock parts looked like. I've seen what original 1--4 linkages looked like, and they are chunky and finicky to adjust, which is why they were swapped for Miraphone parts. I'm sure those have their own disadvantages, but they work great right now, and will be easy to repair if needed later on.

Here's another shot of it, from a previous owner's for sale pictures (it's upside down, but you can see the little part where your thumb pushes the lever. It has a small hex head screw to adjust it, and it's as far out as it goes. It feels like ideally, it should be a little longer. My thumb misses the mark every once in a while. I really like the Miraphone "bar" 5th valve, but there's clearly not enough room for that here.

[bort]

One other crazy thought, maybe this was originally (long ago) a LH 5th valve, and it was converted to RH? The wear spot on the silver on the outer bow is (or is almost) in the right spot for it.

You're right though, I'm sure that (for a price), I can get the parts from Willson to do whatever I want...

[bort]

If I'm remembering correctly, you probably could really use that #2 slide device for (quite sharp, as I recall) D# just below the staff, as well as the no-great-solution-without-it two-ledger-lines B natural (2-4).

Again, it's two screws to install/remove it, so an extremely minor effort to reinstall if I decide I need it.

Besides, it was really the Eb that benefitted from it. The D# is fine. (Yuk yuk). Also, B natural is just 2. I think you meant C#, which works just fine as 235.

As with anything, the game is change it, try it, then decide. I'm still in "try it" mode.

[MartyNeilan]

I had a Mirafone F tuba that somebody had added some very heavy tuning jiggers. When I desoldered them, the horn seemed to have a little more color and play livelier and more responsive. Too much weight in the wrong places can deaden a horn.

[tubeast]

To my opinion, Willson doesn´t bother that much about ergonomics when designing right Hand operated 5th valves.
The tiny paddle can be taken off by loosening a screw. What remains is a cylindrical rod.
It was absolutely NO Problem to carve a more convenient paddle out of wood, drill a hole and glue it on to that rod.
That paddle is designed with protrusions that rest against some other part of the original linkage.
That takes care of any operating forces, so the glue is simply used to keep the wood in place.

Designing that little gadget was fun and makes my horn unique. It´s been in operation for 6 years now and never let me down.

[bort]

Thanks Hans -- very cool idea, and you have exactly described what the problem is. I would love to see a picture of what you did for a bit of inspiration.

I keep coming back to the idea of a LH 5th valve though. It's a heavy horn and I don't do any slide pulling. My left hand is pretty much always right there on the side anyway, so it might be really convenient. I guess it just takes money and time to find out how much I actually like it....

[tubeast]

I´ll see what I can do about pics - later.
The total customization process involved removal of the horribly placed thumb ring, attachment of a wooden hand rest and application of a strap that I also use to rest my left wrist on. This makes it easier to pull 4th valve slide as described below, and it keeps the horn balanced and in control.

To me, the 5-valves-righthanded is the perfect setup.
My horn is a BBb. Low C fingered 1-3-4-5 is a little flat, 2-3-4-5 is sharp, so I pull 4th valve slide quite a bit, using my left hand.
Low B natural all Buttons down is still sharp, so that´s fixed using 4th valve slide as well.

Very convenient, and it saves the investment in a 2nd valve trigger.

[tubeast]

Actually, I had posted pics of those custom parts five years ago:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37974&p=332359&hili ... od#p332359

[bort]

Perfect, thanks! That looks really cool -- probably a more extreme solution than I will seek out, but I will likely do something. You're right, the thumb ring isn't really in the best place either. Most likely, I will probably take my tuba to Lee Stofer and say "please make this better" and see what he can come up with.

By the way, I forgot that your tuba is the Willson 6400 -- which looks like the 3050/3100, except a lot bigger. Is it actually larger all around, or the same bugle with a different bell stack (taller and not as wide, vs. shorter and wider). Is there a CC version of the 6400?

Thanks again!

[Billy M.]

Is there a CC version of the 6400?

Already looking for the new axe, I see. How long till we should expect the listing in for sale for your current horn?

[bort]

Real funny! (Okay, I deserve it!)

Definitely not for sale, and definitely not looking for anything new. Just trying to educate myself about what's out there. The 6400 isn't listed on the Willson site, though there are a few indirect photos here and there. Looks like a neat horn. Willson makes a lot more stuff than you usually see here in the US.

Let me put it this way, if I were looking for a new tuba (and I'm not!), I certainly wouldn't be looking for anything bigger and heavier. The 6400 must weigh around 30 pounds. No thanks!

[oedipoes]

The 6400 must weigh around 30 pounds. No thanks!

I'm not sure...
I think the bugle of the 3100 and the 6400 is very similar, but the 3100 has a tighter wrap...
So I guess it weighs the same...

[tubeast]

Upon deciding which horn to order, I interviewed the Willson people on their models. They stated that 6400 and 3100 share identical bugles and material. I preferred the 6400 for the following reasons:
- I figured it was more impressive than its chubbier sibling.
- the taller horn has a higher center of gravity. That makes setting it down on its rim to the side of my seat easier.
The slight difference becomes interesting during practise weekends with 6 to 8 hours of scheduled practise time.

As far as I remember, Willson can build a tall version of the 3050 as well, they simply choose not to advertise it.

[bort]

Thanks Hans! That is a very attractive tuba! I appreciate your input and responses.

[bort]

More time on the horn, more thoughts:

I can kind of see why people complain about ergonomic issues with this horn -- the thumb ring and 5th valve are not really located in the right place for my hands, and presumably the hands of others. If I use the thumb ring and expect to play with all 5 valves, it's not a great angle to hold my hand.

What I've been trying is holding the horn without using the thumb ring, and playing it as a 4-valve horn -- when I do this, my thumb is nowhere near the 5th valve lever. It is comfortable to hold and play (and actually plays really well without even using the 5th valve).

At some point, probably sooner than later, I will have the thumb ring moved to a more bort-friendly position, and I'm also still exploring the idea of a LH fifth valve paddle. If the linkage/paddle can be logically re-routed to make it wok in the RH, that's still cool, but I'm not savvy enough to know if the place where my thumb *wants* the paddle to be is actually possible. I really don't have a problem with a LH valve if that's easier. Willson makes LH 5th valves as a stock option (possibly even the default), so I know it would work.

[poomshanka]

For folks who've noted some of the RZ's obvious right-hand ergonomic issues:

http://www.daveamason.com/willson" target="_blank

I loved my RZ, but the hand positioning was killing me. If my hand/wrist/arm was comfortable, the mouthpiece was in my throat. If the mouthpiece was where I liked it, my hand/wrist was bent at a funny angle. Robb Stewart rejiggered the linkage, and it was much easier to play without feeling like carpal tunnel was creeping up my arm.

...Dave