ntruhan wrote:Sad part, I played everyday for 6 years (through high-school and 2 years in college), sometimes in multiple bands at once, and I was pretty good then, not to toot my own horn, but now... 17 years later ... My range isn't anywhere NEAR what I remember it used to be, lucky to maintain a high F 3rd octave, not 4th) and strain to hit that high G, and can only go as low as a low G, G2 not pedal G1. (Hopefully I got the octave notations right).
Lucky.
I have a similar background, but have never been more than a two-octave man. (Between the Fs)
I am committed to the advancement of civil rights, minus the Marxist intimidation and thuggery of BLM.
A Yammie 321 isn't a bad horn. And in good repair is as good as anything you're likely to find for 2K. You would be much better off taking it to a good repair guy like Tubatinker and have Dan do a play restoration on it for a few hundred bucks. The valves will be aligned, new felts, corks, dents removed and any bad joints resoldered. Dan seems to be the closest to you and you really want to go to somebody who plays/knows tubas and has the skill set to know what they are doing. You will be supprised at how well your horn will now play and honestly it will be a heck of a lot cheaper than spending 2k. You probably could take the wife on a real nice vacation with the $1600-1700 that is left over from your 2K!
I'm currently playing a Yamaha 321. It belongs to a local college and I'm sitting in their concert band because they don't have a tuba player. I can hit my regular full range with any of my mouthpieces, as well as with my other tubas. Intonation is probably better, plus it has a fourth valve.
It seems like a good course would be to have a competent repairman check it over and fix the little stuff. Then when your chops are back in place and you don't need another tuba, you can use the extra thousand or so for beer money.
On the other hand maybe you just want another tuba.
tofu wrote:A Yammie 321 isn't a bad horn. And in good repair is as good as anything you're likely to find for 2K. You would be much better off taking it to a good repair guy like Tubatinker and have Dan do a play restoration on it for a few hundred bucks. The valves will be aligned, new felts, corks, dents removed and any bad joints resoldered. Dan seems to be the closest to you and you really want to go to somebody who plays/knows tubas and has the skill set to know what they are doing. You will be supprised at how well your horn will now play and honestly it will be a heck of a lot cheaper than spending 2k. You probably could take the wife on a real nice vacation with the $1600-1700 that is left over from your 2K!
While I am sure Dan does GREAT work, not sure I can travel 6 hours out that way right now. I know someone recommended Buckeye Brass and Wind to me as well to look at which is about 10 minutes away. I went there to look at other tubas but they do the same type of repair/rebuild/restoration work as well, but not sure if anyone else has dealt with them in that respect?
hbcrandy wrote:If you did not play for 17 years, I can say with some authority that you have lost a lot of embouchure muscle tone and strength that is required to play a brass instrument......
Or never had it in the first place. Many tuba players can't play above the middle of the staff because they haven't ever really developed a true embouchure. Everyone can make some kind of buzz, and this point-and-shoot approach suffices for all the guys who only will play the lower part at TubaChristmas.
There is no hardware solution for this.
ntruhan wrote:I'll get pictures up in the morning. Tuba is sitting in my wife's office at the Church right now.
Thank you all for your replies so far.
After some investigation on the horn, it is a Yamaha YBB-321. i found very small markings on the 2nd Valve with the identifier. At first I thought it was 821 but couldn't find anything, but the 8 was an actually 3 when you got real close and zoomed in on it. Also a serial number 006799 on it as well.
That Yamaha 321 looks in better shape than the one I've been playing in two different concert bands. If everything on it is working OK, and there aren't any leaks it should work for you pretty well.
Retired Army Reserve 98th Div. Band: Euphonium, Trombone, Tuba, Bass Guitar
Miraphone 186 CC
Conn 36K Sousaphone
Euphonium: Yamaha YEP-321 (modified with Euro-shank receiver with Lehman M mouthpiece)
Trombones:Yamaha 612 Bass, Conn 88H
ntruhan wrote:I'll get pictures up in the morning. Tuba is sitting in my wife's office at the Church right now.
Thank you all for your replies so far.
After some investigation on the horn, it is a Yamaha YBB-321. i found very small markings on the 2nd Valve with the identifier. At first I thought it was 821 but couldn't find anything, but the 8 was an actually 3 when you got real close and zoomed in on it. Also a serial number 006799 on it as well.
That Yamaha 321 looks in better shape than the one I've been playing in two different concert bands. If everything on it is working OK, and there aren't any leaks it should work for you pretty well.
Well it isn't so much the leak (There used to be a very small pin hole that was patched), it is the rattle. Since one of the braces is missing and others are not quite fastened right (one is just an old nut and screw), when you hit certain notes, especially trying to use the 4th valve, it rattles quite noticeably and sound just goes to crap. So if it is cheaper, I may just have it all re-done. I took it all apart tonight and cleaned it thoroughly and in process payed a lot closer attention and noted there are 3 different types of springs being used in the 4 values. I also knew before that there were 3 types of valve buttons as they don't match, and also none of the stems are the same length either, the 4th valve is a bit shorter then the others (valve body itself is smaller also) and the 2nd one is lower then the 1st and 3rd.... So it needs work.
OK, I think we're getting warm. The valves need to be lined up right at both top and bottom of the "stroke", and if that's off, it should be an easy fix and a significant improvement.
That said ... when you take it in, maybe get some quick fixes like that done, but honestly I think that's getting pretty close to junk. This is just guessing from a couple photos, but it looks like it has had some inexpert dent work (i.e., who knows what horrors may be found under the bow guard), there are dents in the leadpipe, the 3rd valve knuckle looks pretty trashed, and is that a crack in the 2nd largest bend at the bottom (bottom of the tuba, top in the picture)? The paint is a joke that isn't going to be funny for long. So ... they'll know, I'm just some guy on the internet looking at pictures, but if they don't think it's worth putting a lot of work into, I think you can believe them.
Donn wrote:OK, I think we're getting warm. The valves need to be lined up right at both top and bottom of the "stroke", and if that's off, it should be an easy fix and a significant improvement.
That said ... when you take it in, maybe get some quick fixes like that done, but honestly I think that's getting pretty close to junk. This is just guessing from a couple photos, but it looks like it has had some inexpert dent work (i.e., who knows what horrors may be found under the bow guard), there are dents in the leadpipe, the 3rd valve knuckle looks pretty trashed, and is that a crack in the 2nd largest bend at the bottom (bottom of the tuba, top in the picture)? The paint is a joke that isn't going to be funny for long. So ... they'll know, I'm just some guy on the internet looking at pictures, but if they don't think it's worth putting a lot of work into, I think you can believe them.
You are right about the dents, but that isn't a crack, it is just some scratches in the paint. There seems to be a darker undercoat to the mat finish. There is another one on the third wrap as well which is about the length of a quarter. Never hurts to get it checked out though.
If it were me, I would try to trade this tuba in and get something better.
Yes, those are "okay" tubas, and in good condition, it will play "okay." But I think they are awkwardly sized and a bit hard to hold.
Sounds like your valves are a mess of mis-matched parts (a few hundred to fix), and you have a loose brace or two that needs to be re-soldered. The paint is bad news.
It's certainly not a lost cause, but I think if you upgraded to something a little better, you would notice a huge and positive difference.
bort wrote:If it were me, I would try to trade this tuba in and get something better.
Yes, those are "okay" tubas, and in good condition, it will play "okay." But I think they are awkwardly sized and a bit hard to hold.
Sounds like your valves are a mess of mis-matched parts (a few hundred to fix), and you have a loose brace or two that needs to be re-soldered. The paint is bad news.
It's certainly not a lost cause, but I think if you upgraded to something a little better, you would notice a huge and positive difference.
Yep. I think I am going to, estimate to rebuild was more than the other tubas. so the decision is made there. Only problem is I wanted to try to switch to a rotor from a piston valve (yes I know there is a LOT of debate on this), but the only reason I am starting to have some nerve/muscle issues with my pinky finger on my right hand, heading to doctor again soon to get it figured out, and figured it would be easier to use the rotor paddles than the piston valves.
Crappy lead-free solder is Yamaha's big weakness, but any tech should be able to touch up your braces as needed. Look at pictures of YBB-321 and make sure there aren't any completely missing. 3rd valve knuckle won't be an expensive fix, and leadpipe might be just good enough. This type of tuba can have a lot of dents in the body and still play fine, no issues there.
This type of tuba sounds great in a band but not ideal for quintet. Upper register may be squirrely and stuffy. If quintet is your main jam, I'd try something else. Good 3/4 BBb tubas sound great in quintet and are still welcome in community band. I can't think of a better one than Bach 869/Olds O-99, with Conn 12J close behind. Wouldn't sneeze at a Conn 10J, other than the agony of playing B-natural with 3 top action pistons. Would pass on a Yamaha student 3/4.
Rotary valves seem easier on *my* hands than piston valves.
And among piston valve horns, front-action is a lot friendlier to me than top-action. If you like top-action, you could try a British style upright-valve tuba... that has 3 valves on top, and the 4th valve is a reacharound with the left hand. You have a few options, but you're smart to not ignore the pain!
bort wrote:Rotary valves seem easier on *my* hands than piston valves.
And among piston valve horns, front-action is a lot friendlier to me than top-action. If you like top-action, you could try a British style upright-valve tuba... that has 3 valves on top, and the 4th valve is a reacharound with the left hand. You have a few options, but you're smart to not ignore the pain!
I think the old truism of try before you buy is a good idea. I've got nerve damage in both hands and own rotary, front action and top action horns. I personally find my top action horn on a BBC tuba stand the easiest on my hands. If I had to hold it in my lap it would be the worst. My two rotary horns cause the most numbness in my hands so I wouldn't automatically assume that a rotary horn is going to be the best option for you. Also the horn that seems the friendliest for a few minutes of playing may not be the friendliest after an hour or two of playing.
tofu wrote:Also the horn that seems the friendliest for a few minutes of playing may not be the friendliest after an hour or two of playing.
Excellent point. I would add to that, after a month or two of playing as well. I've always believed that play tests are only enough to determine if you're going to buy it. You need a lot more time (a month or so) to decide if you want to keep it. There's no shame in selling a tuba relatively soon after buying it. Nobody gets married after their first date and expects it to last forever.
tofu wrote:Also the horn that seems the friendliest for a few minutes of playing may not be the friendliest after an hour or two of playing.
Excellent point. I would add to that, after a month or two of playing as well. I've always believed that play tests are only enough to determine if you're going to buy it. You need a lot more time (a month or so) to decide if you want to keep it. There's no shame in selling a tuba relatively soon after buying it. Nobody gets married after their first date and expects it to last forever.
Lol. Well, I but the bullet and there was a Meihl 2011FA 3/4 BBb tuba fairly cheap that I picked up at Buckeye Brass. Great condition and while it is Piston valve, it is front action, not top, and very easy action on the valves, played very easily (didn't bother my pinky finger), sounded nice and even though it was a 3/4, it was larger then the Jupiter 3/4 they had and closer to the 4/4 Yamaha I have. They wouldn't take my Yamaha in on trade, so time for eBay I guess, even though it doesn't work for me, a bit miss-matched and dented, it may work for someone who can't get anything else or who has the experience to fix it.
ntruhan, what was your experience with Buckeye Brass? I don't think I've seen that shop mentioned on this board- if you had a good experience, you might mention TubeNet to them and see if they'd be interested in a sponsorship...............
Principal tuba, Bel Air Community Band
Old (early 1900s?) Alexander BBb proto-163
1976 Sonora (B&S 101) 4-rotor BBb
1964 Conn 20J/21J BBb (one body, both bells)
~1904 York 3P BBb Helicon
Old Alex Comp.F, in shop
Heavy_Metal wrote:ntruhan, what was your experience with Buckeye Brass? I don't think I've seen that shop mentioned on this board- if you had a good experience, you might mention TubeNet to them and see if they'd be interested in a sponsorship...............
They were really helpful. Rob, the owner and a Tuba player himself let me try out a handful of their tubas and a different mouthpiece as well to see, if I counted correctly they had about 8 - 9 BMB tubas out on display and about 6 or so used tubas like King, Jupiter and Meihl (well.. they had a Meihl ). And while he wouldn't take my Yamaha in for trade, he did offer packaging if I needed it for shipping the tuba since that is a little harder to find.
I did mention I heard his name from a member on TubeNet and he was aware of TubeNet, but I never took it any further then that.
... My range isn't anywhere NEAR what I remember it used to be, lucky to maintain a high F 3rd octave, not 4th) and strain to hit that high G, and can only go as low as a low G, G2 not pedal G1. (Hopefully I got the octave notations right).
). And while he wouldn't take my Yamaha in for trade, he did offer packaging if I needed it for shipping the tuba since that is a little harder to find.