Insight: Rudy Meinl 4/4 CC and Miraphone 188

[darth2ba]

Hello all,

Out of curiosity, for those of you who have owned (or still own) either of these models, could you please share your experiences, i.e. tone color, ease of playing, intonation, ensemble usage/how it handles between large ensemble, chamber ensemble and solo situations, and anything else you can think of mentioning.

Thank you in advance for your insight.

All the best,

Joe

[bort]

I have owned both, and both are really great tubas.

The 188 is easier to play on average, has better intonation, and has a great sound.

The Rudy needed some maintenance to play it well and consistently -- when I stayed on top of it, it was great. When I had time away from the horn, it was less forgiving. The Rudy sound is special, and worth the extra effort. It's distinct and I like it better than the 188 sound... but that was with both horns side by side. On their own, they both sound very good.

They are both physically about the same size, but the Rudy feels and sounds like a bigger horn than the 188.

Having owned both (and sold both), the one I would go back to is the 188. I think it's the ultimate compromise tuba for me. Not the very best at everything, but very good at everything. Plus, the 188 is a real lap dog... the most ergonomic tuba I've ever played. I smile a bit just thinking about the 188, I really like those tubas. I probably shouldn't have ever sold mine, but I wanted something bigger.

PM me if you have specific questions, and I'll try to help.

[Billy M.]

I loved my Miraphone 188.

Fun player, very well in-tune, and classic Miraphone (read: Tommy Johnson on movie recordings) sound.

Reason I sold it? Unfortunately, I needed a bit more power (notorious Miraphone rotor horn low end, even though it was decent by comparison to a number of other 188s) in the low register and something big enough to help sustain a 100-piece community band and 65 piece orchestra.

If my playing requirements change, I'd go back to that horn without a doubt in my mind.

[bort]

Part 2 of my thoughts... (hope this doesn't change Joe's mind )

I liked the 188 more for orchestra than I did for band. My playing time was about 25% orchestra and 75% band, so I decided I wanted something bigger. I agree with what Billy said, in band, I felt like I was pushing the tuba a bit more to make it happen than I was with the RM.

On recordings, in orchestra, the 188 just plain sounded great and it didn't take a ton of work or effort to make that sound. Projection is great, and the sound WILL be heard. I wish more orchestral tuba players would play on medium-ish rotary CC tubas, it's a sound I enjoy hearing (plus, I'd like to hear a GOOD tuba player play a tuba like this... not recordings of my not-good self).

On band recordings, the sound was still there, but admittedly, band music is intended to have a tuba *section*, not a single tuba. Frequently being the only tuba (or the only strong tuba) makes a difference in the amount of output needed to meet the director's expectations. I have no doubt that you can make enough tuba sound with a 188 to be the only tuba player in a large group, but it takes a little more work to do it than it does on the RM, which has a bigger sound to it.

Looking back, that could have been due in part to the 188 being gold brass -- gold brass has a slightly softer sound to it, which is prettier, but you lose a bit of that projection and "feeling of strength" (I just made that up, whatever the hell that means). That said, my 188 was from the mid 80's, I *think* it was the same anniversary model of which Joe had a bad example... however, mine was a real gem.

Best tuba I've ever played was an 80's *yellow* brass 188 from the mid 80s. I think it was a LOT like Billy's old tuba (which I would have bought had I not just gotten my Willson). I'm not unhappy at all with my Willson, but I seriously won't be surprised when I end up with a 188 again, and keep it for good that time. I've owned and played a lot of tubas, and have found nothing that works as well for me all around as the ultimate compromise of the Miraphone 188.

[Lee Stofer]

From conversations with Rudolf Meinl, Jr. in the latter 1980's, I found that the Meinls were very aware of the fact that the 4/4 CC models did not have the intonation that the 3/4 and 5/4 models did, which is why they did a computer-aided re-design of that tuba right after they did the F-tubas. The older Rudi 4/4 CC's are very playable, but do require some extra work to really excel. I have installed the newer-style main tuning slide assembly on an older 4/4 CC for a customer, and although it is still not the newer horn, it does measurably improve the instrument.

My take on the 188 CC is that it is a fun, relatively light-and-happy CC tuba, that does 98% of anything I'd ever need to do, and do it well.

Rudolf Meinl for some years now has made his standard instruments with a goldbrass leadpipe, rotor crooks, and main tuning slide crook, and the rest of the instrument of yellow brass. He says that this offers leadpipe corrosion resistance, most of the ease of response to be gained by goldbrass, and the yellow brass body and bell give more strength of projection out into the hall. My experience with such instruments makes me agree with him.

[Billy M.]

Part 2 of my thoughts...

Best tuba I've ever played was an 80's *yellow* brass 188 from the mid 80s. I think it was a LOT like Billy's old tuba (which I would have bought had I not just gotten my Willson). I'm not unhappy at all with my Willson, but I seriously won't be surprised when I end up with a 188 again, and keep it for good that time. I've owned and played a lot of tubas, and have found nothing that works as well for me all around as the ultimate compromise of the Miraphone 188.

Dangit, dood! I am really happy with my 1291, don't make me yearn to get that 188 back!

[Bob Kolada]

I played a 187 for 2-3 years and had the opportunity to play whatever model the similar size Rudy Bb is for about 3 weeks during that. I thought it sounded a little more colorful, low range was a little more unpredictable -but- I could also get a bit more power out of it, and I never really figured out how to play it completely in tune. I think if I'd had it longer I would have figured it out. I ended up playing open F, all C's, and low F 1-3, only using 4 for the low range. The 2nd kicker was nice but difficult to actually use as that valve wasn't vented.

[bort]

Part 2 of my thoughts...

Best tuba I've ever played was an 80's *yellow* brass 188 from the mid 80s. I think it was a LOT like Billy's old tuba (which I would have bought had I not just gotten my Willson). I'm not unhappy at all with my Willson, but I seriously won't be surprised when I end up with a 188 again, and keep it for good that time. I've owned and played a lot of tubas, and have found nothing that works as well for me all around as the ultimate compromise of the Miraphone 188.

Dangit, dood! I am really happy with my 1291, don't make me yearn to get that 188 back!

Don't worry, they made more.

[Billy M.]

Part 2 of my thoughts...

Best tuba I've ever played was an 80's *yellow* brass 188 from the mid 80s. I think it was a LOT like Billy's old tuba (which I would have bought had I not just gotten my Willson). I'm not unhappy at all with my Willson, but I seriously won't be surprised when I end up with a 188 again, and keep it for good that time. I've owned and played a lot of tubas, and have found nothing that works as well for me all around as the ultimate compromise of the Miraphone 188.

Dangit, dood! I am really happy with my 1291, don't make me yearn to get that 188 back!

Don't worry, they made more.

It's not a matter of made more... it's that particular horn was special.

[bort]

It's not a matter of made more... it's that particular horn was special.

...then it has some assembly line brothers that might be equally as good?
...the next owner might not keep it forever?
...there might be another that's even better?

Just trying to make you feel better. Actually, go play the 1291, you'll remind yourself you made the right choice for you.

[Billy M.]

Sellers remorse is no fun.

I really do love my 1291. However, if money were no object, I'd get that 188 back quick.