bort wrote:I'm not against them... but at this point, another set of fingerings isn't high on my "to do list."
Billy M. wrote:bort wrote:I'm not against them... but at this point, another set of fingerings isn't high on my "to do list."
... pansy.
Well, with "like" vs economics and whatever else, we're talking about tradeoffs. If people in the US band scene cared a lot about the bass tuba for some reason, things might have gone a little different. Should they have cared? or is it crowded enough in there, between the BBb tubas, euphoniums, trombones etc. that the timbre of a real bass tuba on that upper line really isn't worth the trouble?opus37 wrote:I don't think it was a matter of "like", I think it was a matter of economics.
Could I ask for some specifics there? Earlier I mentioned what I consider the classic US band literature, stuff from a century ago that is mostly what I know. I'd say that's written with both ranges in mind. I've also played a little more recent stuff but don't have them - aside from crap like Broadway tune arrangements that I'm not curious about at all there were a couple composers like Vincent Persichetti, Norman Dello Joio - what do those charts look like? Contrabass only, or is there a bass too?lost wrote:Much of the band literature in the U.S. is written with contrabass ranges in mind.
But that is what the tuba parts do in the classic US band stuff, they're at octaves, and it's usually clear enough that it's for musical effect. That was the age of band music, too - Sousa was kind of like if Elvis had joined the Beatles, he was extremely popular - so one might suppose that to some extent they knew what they were doing. (And it's clear as could be that it's about Eb tuba - the low end of the upper voice is A below the staff. In the earliest charts they'd put the euphonium in there too, under the name "Bb bass", but those parts turned into 3rd trombone. The modern euphonium isn't really well suited to bass lines, in my humble opinion.)bloke wrote:As far as a real Eb tuba PART in wind-band (particularly where woodwinds are included) scoring is concerned, there really isn't a tremendous need (at least, in the opinion of one bloke). [1] The euphonium is pitched an octave above the BBb tuba, and [2] harmonies other than octaves (even 5ths) in the tuba range tend to rumble, and are widely considered (other than special effects - such as a "drone" sound) to be "poor voicing"...
Yes, for sure, so obviously there they're writing for an Eb tuba. But it isn't just about compass, you'll see one passage with some doubled notes and then another that's the same notes but none doubled. Maybe it's more effective to see what we're talking about - An Eb tuba has a fine low C, for example, so sometimes where it suits the line they're together on that note. I'm not going to second guess John Phillip Sousa on the reasons for this voicing. As far as I'm concerned if he wrote it that way, it's right. Like I say, the question is whether bass tuba(s) would sound significantly better on the upper voice. That doesn't mean necessarily Eb-technically-bass-tubas-made-to-contrabass-specs, I mean a bass tuba meant to play as such.58mark wrote:It's my observation that they wrote in octaves when the lower part goes down to a low Bb or below, which are notes that are precarious or impossible on a 3 valve Eb tuba
There are quite a few beyond that list, as well--John Stevens (when he was still playing), Phil Sinder, Scott Watson, Wes Jacobs, Ken Amis, Jeff Funderburk, and several others make use of the Eb tuba as either their main bass tuba or along with an F tuba.Billy M. wrote:If I remember correctly, there are even a number of pros here in the US that use Eb tubas as their primary bass tuba (or primary tuba period).
Jay Bertolet is one such fellow as are Rex Martin, and Marty Erickson.
Perhaps we'll see something of a similar nature with Eb tubas as we are starting to see with BBb tubas in major orchestras (right horn with the right sound for the job).