Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

dantetuba · Post by **dantetuba** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:13 pm

Ok I know that some projects in cut the old 2341 King but have someone that cut the new 2341 to CC?

I'm curious

It's a great horn and sound is good but there is a new 2341 cut to CC? Worth?

Let me know

Thanks

NCSUSousa · Post by **NCSUSousa** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:36 pm

The Eastman CC tuba is the tuba that you're describing, but it has all of the kinks worked out according to everyone who has one:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64941
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67360&p=554792&hili ... CC#p555662

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:04 pm

Isn't the Conn 5XJ series considered a "2341 cut to CC"? There has been extensive discussions here about this in the past.

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:37 pm

Cut that to 54J (or 52J, heck I wouldn't know)?

Looks to me like a different bell, some non-trivial cutting and a generally different valve section. But it's nice that they kept the left bend in the first valve tubing, where the water collects and there's no convenient way to get it out.

bort · Post by **bort** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:16 am

Old 2341s are cheap. New ones are not. Just buy a CC tuba.

dantetuba · Post by **dantetuba** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:34 pm

Thanks a lot .
I'm asking about cut a new 2341 because I found a used for a fair price and I intend to buy but I'm use a C and cut the 2341 should be a good idea. The tune slide is long. Well is only an idea.

Someone here on Tubenet did it?

Thanks

Tubajug · Post by **Tubajug** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:15 pm

A while back, someone was asking about cutting a Conn 4/5J to CC and my answer was that if there already exists a good C version of a horn (the Conn 2/3J in that case), the labor, cost and risk of cutting an already great Bb instrument to C is not worth it.

I plan on building my own CC out of two different horns just for the fun of it, but I plan on using old, beat up horns. I wouldn't take a perfectly good BBb horn and cut it to C. Play the good Bb horn or buy a CC if that's what you really want.

dantetuba · Post by **dantetuba** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:33 pm

Lacquer!

TubaZac2012 · Post by **TubaZac2012** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:40 pm

I can weigh in here. My York/King/Reynolds is not a King 2341, but a 1241. Same idea. Sam Gnargy has done this with the 2341. He'd be a great resource to ask. Either him or Tabor. Good luck.

The Big Ben · Post by **The Big Ben** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:30 pm

TubaZac2012 wrote:I can weigh in here. My York/King/Reynolds is not a King 2341, but a 1241. Same idea. Sam Gnargy has done this with the 2341. He'd be a great resource to ask. Either him or Tabor. Good luck.

Cutting a 2341 to CC is probably not the easiest way to get a good playing CC. Using the 2341 as a BBb or selling it and using the proceeds to buy a factory/specialist built CC might be an easier way to go. If you want a project as a challenge to your skills, well, it's your time and instrument.

roweenie · Post by **roweenie** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:57 pm

Let me get this straight:

The idea is to buy a tuba (King) that sells new for @ $7000, then disassemble it, and cut it up (with more than likely questionable results) in order to achieve what is already available in a horn (Eastman) that sells for over $1000 less, and has nothing but stellar reviews?

If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me.

roweenie · Post by **roweenie** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:48 pm

KiltieTuba wrote:
roweenie wrote:Let me get this straight:

The idea is to buy a tuba (King) that sells new for @ $7000, then disassemble it, and cut it up (with more than likely questionable results) in order to achieve what is already available in a horn (Eastman) that sells for over $1000 less, and has nothing but stellar reviews?

If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me.
He doesn't have a lead on a cheap Eastman horn... it's a King that's readily available to buy and within driving distance for him. It's his money, why should you care what he does with it?

1. $7000 - $1000= $6000 (the price for the new Eastman on the Dillon website). I never said he had a lead on a cheap anything, although I now realize he has access to a "reasonably" priced 2341 near him. (I don't know how much is "reasonable", so I can't tell you how much money he risks losing if he chops it up.)

2. I was genuinely looking for a clarification

3. I never said anything about how he should spend his money.

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:39 pm

Clarification can be found earlier in the thread - the 2341 is used. "New" means new as in new vs. old, short bell vs. tall bell. If it's a simple operation, he can get someone to do it (if he's anywhere near São Paulo anyway, lots of musical instrument fabrication skill in that area), and he's got an economical C tuba. I'm guessing it is not a simple operation if you want a good tuba, but he was more specifically asking for feedback from someone who's done it, which I sure haven't.

roweenie · Post by **roweenie** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:26 pm

Donn, thanks for setting me straight on that; I mistook the meaning of "new" in the title.

Here's the crux of the matter, for me:

People around here toss around the idea of cutting a horn from x to y pretty freely; in fact so freely, that some folks start to get the impression that it's a simple matter of unsoldering everything, cutting it up with a hacksaw, and then slapping it back together. Well, I'm no pro repairman, just a shade-tree mechanic who messes with beat up, inexpensively bought horns for my own amusement. However, I've opened up enough horns to discover that taking 2 inches off a horn can be a dicey proposition, let alone 2 feet, and the end result could very well end up as a pile of junk.

KiltieTuba wrote:It's his money, why should you care what he does with it?

And, here's why I care (and so should you):

I've received on this forum invaluable information and advice from several top notch repairmen, men that I could never hope to equal in their experience and talent, and I think it's a person's duty to help others, as we've been helped. From what I can gather, the O.P. seems like a nice, sincere guy, and I think it would be tragic for him to take what money he's got to buy a horn, only to have a very good chance of pissing it all away.

dantetuba · Post by **dantetuba** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:36 pm

Donn thanks again

Yes my question is which ways and forms I can do it. Here in São Paulo have a good repairman that worked on Werill.
I need to know if someone did it. What's the pieces was cut and changed.
I will do it with care and with some informations.
The sound of these horns are great and beautiful.

Thanks again

Sam Gnagey · Post by **Sam Gnagey** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:57 am

Easy, Peasy, done it lots.

Only takes a couple hours

TubaSteve · Post by **TubaSteve** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:01 am

roweenie wrote:Donn, thanks for setting me straight on that; I mistook the meaning of "new" in the title.

Here's the crux of the matter, for me:

People around here toss around the idea of cutting a horn from x to y pretty freely; in fact so freely, that some folks start to get the impression that it's a simple matter of unsoldering everything, cutting it up with a hacksaw, and then slapping it back together. Well, I'm no pro repairman, just a shade-tree mechanic who messes with beat up, inexpensively bought horns for my own amusement. However, I've opened up enough horns to discover that taking 2 inches off a horn can be a dicey proposition, let alone 2 feet, and the end result could very well end up as a pile of junk.

KiltieTuba wrote:It's his money, why should you care what he does with it?
And, here's why I care (and so should you):

I've received on this forum invaluable information and advice from several top notch repairmen, men that I could never hope to equal in their experience and talent, and I think it's a person's duty to help others, as we've been helped. From what I can gather, the O.P. seems like a nice, sincere guy, and I think it would be tragic for him to take what money he's got to buy a horn, only to have a very good chance of pissing it all away.

I wouldn't sell yourself short there Roweenie. Have you posted the photos of your Holton build here yet? A really wonderful job of building a great 6/4 Holton that you should post.

Steve

Matt Walters · Post by **Matt Walters** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:11 am

Go for it.

You only have to remove 23" of tubing in the main bugle, then cut each slide loop to the correct proportion shorter. Cut the main tuning slide so short you only have a enough length to raise or lower the pitch plus or minus 10 cents. Hack off some more tubing in the branches wherever you think is easiest to cut and then finally lose the last bit of length by cutting the leadpipe so short you have to use a tuba stand to compensate for the weird angle.

Later, sell it to someone else at a loss that doesn't even begin to cover your time, because it just doesn't play great and the odd leadpipe and valve section angles are killing your joints.

jamsav · Post by **jamsav** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:34 pm

Friends don't let friends destroy good BBb tubas. Buy it, flip it, turn a profit then get your C - bad idea

Tabor · Post by **Tabor** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:06 pm

TubaZac2012 wrote:I can weigh in here. My York/King/Reynolds is not a King 2341, but a 1241. Same idea. Sam Gnargy has done this with the 2341. He'd be a great resource to ask. Either him or Tabor. Good luck.

Zac, your CC is quite a different approach, compared to cutting a new style King. A lot of it isn't King (actually started with a 1240 that had no bell & a Grand Rapids. The photo of it here (next to one that is largely a lengthened old King) shows some differences.

TubeNet

Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

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Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"

Re: Cut to CC a King 2341 "new style"