How many Auditions did you take?

[Unatuba]

I gave up playing after failing to advance in 5 auditions. Later, a music educator told me I gave up before I even started. Said I had virtually no experience auditioning and shouldn't have expected winning/earning a job. I had played as a sub for a few professional organizations, studied with professional musicians, and attended a top conservatory. I'm curious how many auditions people have taken before getting a gig or changing careers. If you know of others' experiences, it would be fun to hear that, too.

[Unatuba]

I'm only asking how many auditions you took.

[Ken Crawford]

Auditions are a gamble even if you play well enough to occupy the vacancy. I know one guy that won the first professional audition he ever took. For some it takes a couple dozen auditions to win anything. 5 auditions is nothing though and not an indication of possible future success.

[Rick Denney]

maybe...?? ask Mr. Alan Baer...

I recall him being at auditions (many years ago) where I may have have "advanced" to higher "levels" than he did once or twice...
...but any of that ancient history is absolutely meaningless, because neither of us were hired for those jobs.

What WAS meaningful is that Mr. Baer persevered, became much-MUCH more of an expert-on/performer-of orchestral literature than I ever was-or-am, DID push onward, DID work extremely hard and singlemindedly so, WAS offered and accepted some jobs that I did not seek nor could not have accepted (additional credit to his determination and singlemindedness), and eventually (via studies, extremely hard work, likely some inspirations/epiphanies, evaluation of equipment, and surely other factors that would best be described firsthand) climbed up the ladder in the field in which he was absolutely determined to succeed.

We know he took more than five auditions--I can think of five that he won.

Rick "who was not selected for a few jobs he interviewed for" Denney

[Rick Denney]

I gave up playing after failing to advance in 5 auditions. Later, a music educator told me I gave up before I even started. Said I had virtually no experience auditioning and shouldn't have expected winning/earning a job. I had played as a sub for a few professional organizations, studied with professional musicians, and attended a top conservatory. I'm curious how many auditions people have taken before getting a gig or changing careers. If you know of others' experiences, it would be fun to hear that, too.

Are you studying with a top pro? What does he say?

Rick "seems like a requirement for those trying to win a steady pro gig" Denney

[bort]

5 seems low. Be prepared to audition for some good, bad, and **** jobs. Ride out the sub list gigs for all you can and build your network of connections. Live in a place where there are lots of opportunities and be ready to move. A career as a tuba player isn't about winning and hitting the jackpot, its about cobbling together a career until maybe something long term comes along.

Oh, and me? Like 2 or 3. Low stakes stuff. I don't have the will or attention span to spend an insane number of hours perfecting the Ride, when I know I can play it well enough, if the need arises. And here, one of the many differences between me and a professional tuba player.

[roweenie]

A good deal of the "audition process" also depends on "being in the right place in time at the right time".

When I left music school, there seemed to be a "dry spell", where there were few (if any) auditions, to my knowledge (this was long before the Internet and Tubenet) being held for full time positions. By the time I graduated, I already had a fairly successful free-lance playing career (in NYC) - accepting a part-time, or per-service orchestra gig in some other town would have been a reduction in how much money I was making, so I never even bothered to try for these jobs.

Later on, when some of the bigger gigs started opening up, I already owned a house and had a family, so I opted to pass on those, rather than uproot my family.

[bearphonium]

I know that while I have never auditioned for an orchestra/concert band position, I did test with about 20 different police agencies before being hired by the department that I ultimately worked for, 28 years full time and 2 (and counting) part time. Sometimes I didn't get the position because the answers I gave in either the written or oral portions of the test were not what the agency was looking for in a cop, sometimes I lost positions to people with more experience, or who had additional skills, or I didn't meet height/weight criteria. It took 3 years, but I did find a job in my chosen career field.

Perhaps an apples/oranges comparison. Still, 5 attempts doesn't seem like very many.

[b.williams]

I'm only asking how many auditions you took.

I think you hit a nerve!!

[Dylan King]

I took two auditions with very good orchestras in my early twenties and was runner-up in one, and then was a finalist in an audition where nobody was chosen. I was extremely disappointed to put it lightly, having an unrighteousness and cocky sense of entitlement at the time. Looking back, I in no way deserved those positions and am glad they had the sense to reject me.

Also around that time I started getting work around LA in various odd groups, including more than a few rock bands, experimental jazz bands, some recording stuff, etc. This kind of thing, along with the wisdom of Tommy Johnson and others helped me to get over some of my thoughts on HAVING to be the best orchestral tubist in the world, with one of the best orchestras. I excelled so much in high school and college I was sure I was a shoe-in for a big job. Yeah right! Maybe, just maybe if I had actually practiced and showed enough humility inside to know that I needed to practice, I would have had a shot. Maybe.

In many ways, I was finding out that playing in LA as a very freelance musician was more fun than working in an orchestra, anyway. My big ego was also being satisfied with the rock-band life--something that an orchestra couldn't provide for a punk like me. I was also meeting people all over town who were scoring for film, TV, and commercials. With all the new technology, I became convinced that I could learn to score to picture too. The idea of working at home most of the time became appealing, and I changed course quickly in that direction.

Long story short, it is not easy to make a career out of orchestral tuba playing, or any kind of music making for that matter. It almost seems strange that anyone makes a living doing music, even though many have been successful doing it over the last 100 years and more. Never give up, but also be careful not to pigeonhole yourself into any one category. One never knows what door lies ahead, or to the side (perhaps slightly hard to see) that can lead us to professional fulfillment, and hopefully--happiness.

[Three Valves]

I went to the band director in Kolig and said I wanted to play tuba in the marching band.

He said, "Let me see... we have 8 horns and six players now; your're in!!"

The rest is history!!

[Unatuba]

I truly appreciate the thoughtful comments.

[windshieldbug]

Judging who might be "the best player" can be subjective.
"The best fit" and/or "who they want" can be far less subjective.

Then there's who's on the Audition Committee, how the voting is done, if the Music Director has one vote or more than half of the votes, what the probation period is, what the audition music is, what the sight reading is, if the final includes a week with the orchestra, etc, etc...

Having been on the other side of the screen makes one realize that it is NOT as simple as one imagines it is!

[tubanonymous]

OP, I think I may be in a similar stage of my life is you and here are my thoughts on being a young player and auditioning for orchestras

Its very rare to see a young player in an orchestra--even for a string player, let alone winds or brass. From what I gather, orchestra is essentially an "old mans" game. You can probably play the ride just fine (I know I can personally, I have been practicing it for 7 years with the instruction of some of the best teachers).

But there is a certain amount of experience, maturity, and confidence an orchestra player needs that I really believe can only come out of a successful freelance career--just simple things like how to work with musicians, and what expectations of a job are, but things you cant learn in a practice room. There is also TONS of music other than orchestral that you may have no concept of playing, and I am not just talking about jazz.

Then, once you are somewhat established, if orchestra playing is still important to you, you apply all you've learned to those auditions from the comfort of a career you already have. Going from a practice room in college to a chair in an orchestra is like walking from a Harvard Business school graduation and immediately going to your job as CEO of Goldman Sachs

At least this is what I've gathered from observing. So I'm personally gonna keep doing rock/nola/gypsy/etc on tuba and doubling on electric bass, cause thats enough to keep me happy

[Tom]

Its very rare to see a young player in an orchestra--even for a string player, let alone winds or brass. From what I gather, orchestra is essentially an "old mans" game. You can probably play the ride just fine (I know I can personally, I have been practicing it for 7 years with the instruction of some of the best teachers).

Huh

That's not the case at all in the "big" orchestra I'm with (52 wk. contract, ~$100k starting pay) - every string audition we do has hundreds of applicants and I'd say 60% of those applicants are under 30 and 80% of the rest are under 40. And they're not just auditioning for the experience (we don't have time for that, frankly). They're invited to the audition because they're viable candidates, as they should be. They're winning jobs. And not just with "my orchestra" either, strings sections all across the United States are shifting to sections full of young players...and let me tell you...they can play.

For winds, brass, and percussion the crowd tends to a little older on average, but we still see the vast majority of applicants [and eventual "winners] under 40.

This isn't to say anything except that your generalization isn't accurate and that as someone involved in this stuff on a daily basis, I can say definitively that auditioning is a young person's game, without question. I wear several hats where I work, but part of my job title includes "orchestra personnel" and "audition coordinator." I know that of which I speak.

[Tom]

Judging who might be "the best player" can be subjective.
"The best fit" and/or "who they want" can be far less subjective.

Then there's who's on the Audition Committee, how the voting is done, if the Music Director has one vote or more than half of the votes, what the probation period is, what the audition music is, what the sight reading is, if the final includes a week with the orchestra, etc, etc...

Having been on the other side of the screen makes one realize that it is NOT as simple as one imagines it is!

Truth.

[Tom]

I believe that sometimes when no one is chosen, "someone specific" was in mind, and that specific person (simply) did-not/was-not-able-to show up for the audition.
Typically (I believe) that "someone specific" is someone who already has a "position" elsewhere.

Also truth.

[pgym]

Its very rare to see a young player in an orchestra--even for a string player, let alone winds or brass. From what I gather, orchestra is essentially an "old mans" game. You can probably play the ride just fine (I know I can personally, I have been practicing it for 7 years with the instruction of some of the best teachers).

Huh

That's not the case at all in the "big" orchestra I'm with (52 wk. contract, ~$100k starting pay) - every string audition we do has hundreds of applicants and I'd say 60% of those applicants are under 30 and 80% of the rest are under 40. And they're not just auditioning for the experience (we don't have time for that, frankly). They're invited to the audition because they're viable candidates, as they should be. They're winning jobs. And not just with "my orchestra" either, strings sections all across the United States are shifting to sections full of young players...and let me tell you...they can play.

For winds, brass, and percussion the crowd tends to a little older on average, but we still see the vast majority of applicants [and eventual "winners] under 40.

This isn't to say anything except that your generalization isn't accurate and that as someone involved in this stuff on a daily basis, I can say definitively that auditioning is a young person's game, without question. I wear several hats where I work, but part of my job title includes "orchestra personnel" and "audition coordinator." I know that of which I speak.

You forget that for 20-somethings, 30 is old, and 40 is practically ancient.

[tuneitup]

I took six auditions and won the last one. The first one was a small per service orchestra, and they offered me a sub position. The 2nd, a full-time orchestra which I traveled a few hours. They didn't even let me finish the round. The 3rd, 4th and 5th with per service orchestras, they let me finish the rep, but didn't advance. The 6th audition with another per service orchestra, I won after 3 rounds. I was lucky enough to have those 3-6th per service orchestras within a driving distance. I didn't even consider auditioning for an orchestra that would require me to move, except for the 2nd and 3rd orchestra. There are about 15 years between the 1st and the last, and I had other jobs that was flexible enough to take sub jobs. Am I done taking auditions? Maybe, maybe not. Do I practice as much as I used to? Definitely not. I can tell you that I have no desire to audition for a full-time orchestra at this point. By the time I took the 6th audition, I did become a much better player than the time I took my first audition.

I'm not going analyze your situation and tell you what to do, but I will tell you this: to me, being a musician is a lifetime pursuit and not about winning anything. There is no goal. You can only hope for consistent improvements to your craft. Winning a job is only a milestone, and some will reach there fast and some won't. Some may even never get there. If you are only running to the milestone just to get there and not taking in as much as you can from each step, you may miss a crucial knowledge that you might need after you reach the milestone. I tell myself to focus on everyday improvements and not affirmation from others.

[southtubist]

Over 9,000. . .



What? Somebody had to do it!