Comfortable Bass Trombone Mouthpiece for a Tuba Player?

[swillafew]

I find a Bach 2g (maybe 3G) to be big enough to get a classic bass sound, but not so big that you have to have very developed bass chops to make it sound good.

Too large a mouthpiece before you're ready will just sound woofy

This has worked fine for me too. I have a tenor trombone and when people ask me if I play bass trombone, I say "yes".

[tubasaz]

I use Schilke 59 about 99% of playing. As a back-up mouthpiece I use Giardinelli 1 G. Also I play sometimes Bach 1.5G and even Yamaha 60 (last one I get easy pedal tones but upper range suffer).

[Bob Kolada]

I use a shallow JK contra mouthpiece, a KBP2C, most of the time on bass trombone. Love it! Great feel, much less tubby than a Schilke 60, usable above the staff, and goes into overdrive down low. I've used the A cup, that's too deep. My jazz bass/large tenor (theoretically also euph but I find large mouthpieces stuffy on compensated euphoniums) mp is a Yamaha 60B. Nice wide rim, shallow cup, works great.

[eutubabone]

I perform on both bass trombone and tuba. On bass trombone I use a Griego .25 Deco for my Bach 50B2L, but awhile back I also liked the JK 03AK. The JK I purchased through Dillons, I think. The JK has a thicker rim than the Schilke 59 , 60 or Bach 1G. It is a brighter sounding mouthpiece- not quite so deep as the ones I mentioned- which I may end up going back to. When I was auditioning for orchestra positions in the late 70's and through the 80's alot of folks, and I, were trying to sound like a slide tuba- take out the leadpipe, put the venturie into the mouthpiece, bigger and bigger equipment, etc. But now it seems orchestras just want a bass trombone to sound like a " bigger" tenor trombone, not a f tuba with a slide. The JK is also alot cheaper, maybe around $60?

[Donn]

Well, $70, but still a good deal at that.

[ghmerrill]

Twenty years ago when I had my Holton TR181, I used a Schilke 60 and it worked great for me. (Fast forward many years and the Holton gets turned into a high-quality flute for my daughter. Then a few months ago I can't stand not having a bass trombone any longer and go for a 7B clone made by Schiller ...)

With my Schiller horn as it came to me ($585 delivered to my door), the Schilke 60 sucked. Great low range, but yucky and burdensome high range. I thought that a Doug Yeo replica would do the trick, but it sucked even more than the Schilke 60. Just a dull and uninspired (even stuffy) sound. Oddly, I'd had the same experience with one on a Mack Brass bass trombone (which is a Yamaha clone). It was very disappointing. And legions of people rave about this mouthpiece.

After trying several alternatives, I settled on a Bach 1.25 GM. Very nice sound, and the double-valve register sounded quite decent even though it involved more resistance than I seemed to recall from my Holton days.

Two days ago I bit the bullet, had the lead pipe pulled, and replaced it with a Brass Ark BH62 pipe. The difference was noticeable: much cleaner and well-defined sound. But the double-valve register was still more effort than I'd hoped. I tried it with my Wick 2NAL: very nice and somewhat brighter sound, but the B- and C-natural still didn't come out as I hoped they would. As a last effort, I put in the Doug Yeo (which at that point I'd decided to sell as a useless doorstop): MAGIC! Absolutely wonderful bass trombone sound in the middle and high register (somewhat more work up high than the 1.25 GM), and the double-valve notes come out clear and rich at any dynamic level. It's also a very comfortable mouthpiece -- designed to be more easily played than a Schilke 60 while retaining many of the 60's features.

Moral of the story: Any of several different mouthpieces should work well for you in doubling on bass trombone. Try a bunch. What works best will depend on (a) YOU, and (b) the horn it's stuck in (which of course includes the lead pipe). Several places offer mouthpieces on trial. I've mostly been using Hickey's for that recently, and the Doug Yeo "replica" model from Hickey's is $54. Otherwise, in terms of comfort and size and reasonable expense, you might like one of the larger Bachs (1.5, 1.25) or Wick's (2AL).

[WC8KCY]

I've used a Schilke 58 for most of my euph playing for some 20 years. Not woofy at all, rich and resonant in every register, glorious pedal range, play-all-day rim comfort, BUT a bit of work above high F.

There's a certain gravelly timbral defect with Bach trombone mouthpieces that just grates on my ears. I just replaced the Bach 6.5AL I use for extended high-range playing with a Yamaha 51B--problem solved, and inexpensively, to boot.

Were I to take up the bass 'bone, that's where I would start.

[enhite]

For what it's worth, I think a Bach 1 1/2 G is probably too small for a full time tuba player/part time bass t-bone player. That said, if you are still interested, I could sell you a nice used one now that I've sold my trombone. Send a personal message if interested.

[Donn]

For what it's worth, I think a Bach 1 1/2 G is probably too small for a full time tuba player/part time bass t-bone player.

That's an interesting one, to me - tuba players really do better with larger trombone mouthpiece, than trombone players in general do? (Or baritone players, same.)

It isn't really a very intuitively appealing proposition, to me. I don't think we play tuba because we're physically different? We have to play the same range on the trombone as anyone else would, whether we play tuba or not. Two different size mouthpieces that are slightly more similar, are still different anyway. Why not play a size that gives you the least trouble, on an instrument you aren't going to be practicing all day?

Personally ... tuba is the only brass I've ever had any business playing in public, but I maintain a casual intention to get there with the bass trombone. My favorite bass trombone mouthpieces have generally been 1¼G size, but I do OK with 1½G, I just doesn't happen to have one with the exact right shank (right now I'm playing an old Reynolds mouthpiece that I guess would have been like the one that came with my horn from the factory back in the '50s.) I've tried playing it with a tuba mouthpiece, with very poor results.

[marccromme]

I play both Tuba and Bass Bone (have actually been playing bass bone longer), I use a Doug Yeo Signature Mouthpiece from Yamaha (you can get one without the gold plating in your price range).

+1 !!! The Yeo is a very fine bass trombone mouthpiece with good balance and response. It is larger than the Schilke 59 (another fine mouthpiece), but slightly smaller amd more crispy than the Schilke 60.

For a tuba player it should be a good compromise, allowing for a good low range, but still fine higher range.. For others approaching the bass trombone from a tenor trombone it will feel too large to begin with.

For high range playing, a Schilke 59, or even better, a Laskey 85MD (better tonal quality) will be a good choice.

In your case, I would not go as small as Bach 2 or 1.5, and I would definitely not go as large as Schilke 60, Bach 1 or Laskey 93D.

And you need to adapt to a different sound and feeling of the bass trombone - after all, it's a trombone, and not a slide-tuba. Embrace the nice edgy growl a bass bone can produce!

[Joe Stanko]

I play both Tuba and Bass Bone (have actually been playing bass bone longer), I use a Doug Yeo Signature Mouthpiece from Yamaha (you can get one without the gold plating in your price range).

+1 !!! The Yeo is a very fine bass trombone mouthpiece with good balance and response. It is larger than the Schilke 59 (another fine mouthpiece), but slightly smaller amd more crispy than the Schilke 60.

For a tuba player it should be a good compromise, allowing for a good low range, but still fine higher range.. For others approaching the bass trombone from a tenor trombone it will feel too large to begin with.

For high range playing, a Schilke 59, or even better, a Laskey 85MD (better tonal quality) will be a good choice.

In your case, I would not go as small as Bach 2 or 1.5, and I would definitely not go as large as Schilke 60, Bach 1 or Laskey 93D.

And you need to adapt to a different sound and feeling of the bass trombone - after all, it's a trombone, and not a slide-tuba. Embrace the nice edgy growl a bass bone can produce!

+2 for the Yamaha Doug Yeo model - the Replica version is very reasonably priced and there is one for sale on The Trombone Forum from someone I can vouch for: http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,89811.0.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

My opinion is the the Yeo model is the best Schilke 60 that Schilke *never* made other than the CV version. I'd say it has an appropriate size that a tubist doubling bass trombone would find comfortable (as opposed to a bass trombonist doubling tuba, but this is a separate discussion in itself) yet retains the clarity to produce a true trombone sound evenly in all registers.

Don't overlook that any given bass trombone model may click better with a given mouthpiece..an older Conn or King is likely to be on its best behavior with a 1 1/2G sized mouthpiece, but newer models with axial flow inline valves seem to match up better with larger mouthpieces.

Remember that it's a trombone more along the lines of a "baritone" trombone than a "bass" trombone (as in an F trombone commonly called a contrabass) - clarity of production and playing in time on par with tenor trombones is essential. Logey woof woof playing will not get you hired.

Joe Stanko

[toobagrowl]

Thanks, guys. I was more looking for a mpc like the Marcellus (anyone have experience one of those?) but with a slightly smaller shank. For reference, my bass bone has a 9" bell and a .550" ish bore. Closed-wrap design. The Benge 12C mpc is too small and goes in completely. The Marcellus mpc just barely goes in. The supplied no-name mpc goes in perfect, but has (IMO) a smallish, shallow cup. I am getting used to it and have been playing it on-and-off for the past week. But I'd still like to look into a slightly bigger/deeper mpc, with a shank that fits well.

[Donn]

For reference, my bass bone has a 9" bell and a .550" ish bore.

I think you should probably take this to the trombone crowd, like http://tromboneforum.org. They're easy to deal with and they know trombones. They may need more information than you have given us. They will be intrigued. What you have there doesn't look like the standard bass trombone, which would be more like .562 inch, and the circumstances with mouthpiece shanks back that up: your Marcellus is likely a "large shank" as any normal bass trombone mouthpiece will be also. (The 12C is a small shank, so we expect that to fail.) So it's looking like some damned intermediate size, which is awkward. If there's someone with real knowledge about this, he or she will very likely not be a tuba player.

[toobagrowl]

^
I just checked again, and the bell is just over 9" and bore is around .559" I wish I had digital calipers for times like this. I am guessing that most large-bore tenor trombone mpcs would work well with this horn, given the receiver size

[Donn]

Nope - same shank. Tenor trombone takes either small or large shank (12C vs. Marcellus.) Bass trombone takes exactly the same large shank, so there are only two normal sizes.

There are some minor historical variations. Olds small shanks may be a little different. King bass trombones had slightly larger shank receivers. Shanks now have standardized on "Morse" taper, but some large shank trombones, notable Conn 88H and their bass trombones, but also apparently my Reynolds, used at one time a slightly different Brown & Sharpe taper - "Remington", because the Conn 88H came with a Remington mouthpiece with that taper. None of these variations are so different that they wouldn't fit in your trombone, they just wouldn't seat right.

When you have your tromboneforum account and are ready to ask someone who knows, don't worry about getting the bore size exactly right, nor the bell diameter, it doesn't matter. They'll need to know who made the trombone, where, and when.

[harrell]

I find a Bach 2g (maybe 3G) to be big enough to get a classic bass sound, but not so big that you have to have very developed bass chops to make it sound good.

Too large a mouthpiece before you're ready will just sound woofy

This has worked fine for me too. I have a tenor trombone and when people ask me if I play bass trombone, I say "yes".

I agree. I tried a Bach 1 1/4 bass bone MP and it was a little too big for the horn. The higher range didn't respond right and did weird things. The Bach 2 or 3 would be a good in-between.

[Donn]

To me, the Bach 1¼G is deep, and it has a very rounded rim. Pick out a mouthpiece with the same cup diameter but shallower and with a little more defined rim edge, and it will run rings around the 1¼G. (But take into account that the published measurements for Bach bass trombone mouthpieces are about .5 mm smaller than their equivalents for other makes, and also bear in mind I have no idea what I'm talking about. Also, backbore matters, depending on the trombone leadpipe etc.) My old Conn and Reynolds mouthpieces are sort of roughly in that size range, and they're real easy players, as are the JK 1AK etc. Mainly I'm just trying to suggest that it isn't all about that one dimension.

Anyway, it turns out that the current inquirer is looking for something more along the lines of a 5G, if I got that right, and the OP presumably found an answer for his question some time in the intervening 5 years, so we're just having a bit of idle conversation here.