*

[AaronC1901]

*

[bort]

Make sure you have the right pistons in the right holes. Although the pistons *should* all be the same sizes, really old tubas had less controlled manufacturing tolerances.

Otherwise, unfortunately... that's not how to clean out a tuba, and I hope you didn't really mess something up.

Worst case, some polishing compound was left in the valve casing, and over repeated use, you wore down the valve and removed some metal from the valves/casings... so there's a gap between the valve and the casing that leaks air, and now it sounds like crap. If that's the issue, the solution is replating the valves, which it sounds like you were going to do anyway? Short term, some really heavy valve oil might help, if it's not in too bad of condition.

[imperialbari]

Zealous cleaning doesn’t always benefit the playing of an instrument.

Sounds like you have introduces one or more leaks into the instrument.

First of all I would look after the water key corks.

If they are tight, there are possible effects of your cleaning.

The leadpipe may be affected by red rot, and your polishing may have punctured a thin spot.

Many years back here on TN bloke told about the brown corrision on the inside of piston casings being the factor that made valves tight, because these layers grow out to fill the gaps caused by bad construction and/or by wear. They cause no slowing down of the valve action, because they are so soft that they will wear off down to the level that sets the pistons free.

There are side notes to this brown layer of corrosion: It is porous and soaks up quite a bit of valve oil. If the valves are chemically cleaned and dried out, you have to oil generously until that spongy layer has been saturated again. If not, the valves will feel dry and scratchy.

Conn pistons of that era were copper plated, maybe not on the top layer of the surface, but then below a layer of nickel. The pistons of my 1928 Eb 26K are very brown. I haven’t polished them ever through 25+ years of ownership. And they are remarkably tight.

You may have spoiled the tightness of your valves by polishing the pistons and maybe even the piston casings.

The immediate remedy is thicker oil. Time may bring back the tightening layer(-s) of corrosion. The radical and costly solution would be a replating of the pistons.

Klaus

PS: How tight are my 26K valves? Enough to cheat on me.

For years, even before entering tubaism for real, I used the 26K to warm-up in my morning sessions. The purpose was a freer and more open air support for my playing of bassbone and euphonium.

Some mornings my posture was very lazy and I remember especially one morning, where the pistons wouldn’t return, when released. I took of the sousaphone and agitated the valves. No problems at all. Put it on again and went back to a very laid back position. Same problem again, same procedure of agitation, and no problems with that.

At last the reason for the stuck valves dawned upon me. The bottom caps rested on my upper thigh. I could blow the air in the casings through the velvet fabric of my housecoat, when pushing the valves down, but when releasing the pistons the soft and tightly woven fabric blocked air from entering through the bottom caps’ holes, and the pistons stayed down, until I lifted the casings off my thigh.

[Donn]

My experience with leaky water keys is that the problem is most apparent the first few minutes, after it has been sitting around. Assuming the cork is tight enough that the water doesn't just flow right through, the accumulation of water will effectively plug the leak and the instrument will start to sound better.

In this case, though, since the 1st valve wouldn't have a water key, that probably isn't it! To get the thick oil suggested above for the valve, in a pinch you can mix ordinary motor oil with your petroleum based valve oil, making it much thicker. Of course you should also check the alignment of the piston in its down position, at least to see if there's an obvious reason why that might have changed.

[iiipopes]

I agree with checking the valves. The 50+ year old King bari/euph I purchased wouldn't center on 2+3 until I flipped the 1st and 3rd valves back around to their proper locations.

I use pharmaceutical grade mineral oil, added a drop at a time, to a conventional 1-to-2 ounce bottle of conventional valve oil half full a drop at a time until it gets viscous enough to seal the valves, but not so much it impedes them.

[TheGoyWonder]

Oh man, that's really sad. Hope it comes back to life, maybe the felts or cork disinegrated in the cleaning and it's just alignment.

Old-timers can correct me but...if you're going to take a chance on an old Conn, the short-action variety almost always has good compression. Might take a lot of oil to be fast, but they don't seem to wear out. Even a freshman's old beat 20K or a $300 craigslist-special 20J.

[TUbajohn20J]

Same thing happened when I got my old 20J chemically cleaned for the first time. It played great before that. Then when they cleaned it, it immediately began playing horrible, stuffy, and airy. They suggested the thicker oil which didn't help too much. I couldn't take it so I immediately sent it off to get the valves replated by Anderson plating. Played good as new after that. I guarantee you that's what happened. You might need to get that overhaul done soon!

[Donn]

If it appears that might be the issue, worn and therefore leaky valves, and no other explanation is turning up, they can be sealed with thick oil.

You may not be able to really play the tuba that way - if the oil is too thick, the pistons won't come back up. But it will sound OK.

If it can't be made to sound OK with the pistons completely mired in thick oil, then something besides the worn valves needs fixing. Common motor oil should be good enough. Don't use more than you need, it will need to be almost all cleaned up before the pistons will move freely again.

One thing I don't think we've mentioned is a different valve issue, where the piston ports are damaged. Happened to me, looked like the shop had tried to align the valves using a coat hanger or something and punched holes in the port channels.

[Rick Denney]

Switched valves is my bet.

Rick "ashamed to admit having made this mistake...recently" Denney

[AaronC1901]

Thanks guys for the reply. The valves are definitely all where they are supposed to go, and there are no leaks at the spit drainage-thingeys. I think I'm just going to send them off to be replated and hope that there doesn't turn out to be more issues after that

[Dustytuba]

I play a 1909 Martin Eb every week at Church. She is tired, leaks, and is worn hard. She has days when she had a very poor sound, than days she would sing like an opera singer, perfect pitch,clean and clear as a bell. To get her out of her last poor sound slump, she got new corks and felts, a good internal cleaning....boy old horns seem to grow the green slime. Washing, rinsing out the slime seemed to make the best and lasting improvement. Pipe between 1st. valve and mouthpiece was the worst slime. Also I decided to purchase a new Eb.... Just her hearing of a new horn....and she started to sound better.