First use of the tuba in opera

[mg721709]

Hello,
I am embarking on a project to determine when the tuba was first used in an opera. Does anyone have any leads?

Thanks!

[djb238]

Are you referring to specifically modern tuba, or does Cimbasso count as well?

[djb238]

And/or serpent or ophliclide?

Were those ever used in Opera though? I am pretty sure they never appeared in Opera. But I could be egregiously incorrect.

[hbcrandy]

Even though it was written in 1875 when the tuba use was in full swing, if my memory from 35 years ago serves me correctly, Edouard Lalo's opera, "Le roi d'Ys" had an ophicleide part. I remember playing the overture on Eb tuba for a lighter sound because of the ophicleide part.

Also, Gaetano Donetzetti's opera composed in 1835, "Lucia di Lammermoor" has an ophiceide part. I thought I had the concert off thinking there was no tuba involved when, the afternoon of the first rehearsal, the orchestra manager called and asked, "What is an ophicleide and did I know how to play one?" I told her that it is now played on the by the tuba player and I showed up, again, with my York Eb tuba and played the opera.

[mg721709]

I am interested in the first opera that was written specifically with the tuba in mind (not ophicleide, serpent, etc...).

[Matt Good]

Wagner: Flying Dutchman (1843)

[djb238]

Wagner: Flying Dutchman (1843)

On point.

[Bacchanalia]

Good to know that the tuba didn't come "sneaking in the back door" to opera. If you're going to make an entrance...make a damn entrance! I think Dutchman qualifies

[UDELBR]

Wagner: Flying Dutchman (1843)

Originally for ophicleide and not rescored for tuba by Wagner until 1852.

[windshieldbug]

Must be pledge time again...

[Slamson]

OK, I haven't done my homework on this - just recalling a few tidbits.

Berlioz used the Ophicleide for the opera "Les Francs Juges" (Judges of the Secret Court) in 1826. The opera never got off the ground (this is pre- Symphonie Fantastique, after all...), and after the success of Symphonie Fantastique he re-scored the opera, using tuba, circa 1835. The opera was never a success, Berlioz screwed up and lost a bunch of it, so it's no longer "revivable" (until somebody like Brian Newbold gets ahold of it).
On the other hand, there is a tuba part for his opera "Benvenuto Cellini", and I think that came out in the late 1830s.

Yep, I wrote a Master's paper on this stuff...

[pjv]

Well Das Reingold was written for tuba in 1853-4. So maybe we should move backwards from there.

[anonymous4]

Wasn't there a scene in Meyerbeer's Les Huguenots that had an "on stage band" that had a bombardon in it? If so, that was from 1836, which would be before Flying Dutchman.

[Slamson]

Ah-ha! For "Judges of the Secret Court" the last "live" edition called for one ophicleide and one tuba!
Perfect orchestration for a schizophrenic like Berlioz!

[pjv]

In what year was that last version written?

[E. Green]

This information is taken from a book about the history of the Bavarian State Orchestra (Munich Opera):

Bayerisches Staatsorchester
Ophikleidbläser – Barytonhornisten
Baß- und Kontrabaßtubabläser

Johann Horbelt 1882-1920 Kontrabaßist, auch Tubabläser

Rudolf Strobel 1869-1896

Ludwig Jäger 1906-1948 Kontrabaßist, auch Tubabläser
1914 auf die Dauer der Einberufung des A. Schottenheim und dessen Sohnes.

Franz-Paul Behr 1897-1908

Alois Schottenheim 1906-1923

Fritz Tritt 1909-1913

Ludwig Schottenheim 1919-1929 Interessante Vorgeschichte!

Wilhelm Girndt 1923-1931

Hermann Grenzner 1930-1958 Sein Sohn war Orchesterwart
beim BR-Symphonie-Orchester!
Georg Kugelmann 1926-1959

It is interesting that no tubists were indicated for earlier times. Some of the operas which implemented the tuba were given their first performances by that orchestra.

Eugene