Check out my new (old) Alex 163 CC

[arpthark]

I bought this really fine-playing Alexander 163 CC from Norm Epley here in Louisville. It was owned by Dean Somerville (US Army Band, ret.) and played professionally for many years. Apparently, Dean found it in storage in near-pristine condition at a small college where none of the students knew how to play CC, so he bought it from them.

Dean updated the linkage, added extenders to the paddles and a stopper on the first valve slide, which I never really use because almost none of the notes on this horn require slide pulling. The only trick is playing first-line G 1-3 and the standard fifth partial alternates (1-3, 2-3, 1-2 on D, Eb, E). Other than that it's remarkably in-tune and has that characteristic Alex tone with a killer low G. It's really not much physically larger than a Miraphone 186 but sounds much bigger. Four valves is no big deal - low F is fine 1-2-4 and the false tones are good.

What I assume to be the factory lacquer is also in good shape - probably at about 50 to 60%, which is more than can be said about my Mirafone.

The mouthpiece receiver is interesting in that it is huge - larger than the typical Alex receiver. Even Doug Elliott's "A+" shank (meant for extra large pre-1970 Alex receivers) goes all the way in and has some "wiggle room." I measured the receiver at about 16mm, or about 0.630". Due to this I think this is an older model (1960s-70s), but if anyone has any insight to the age, please do share.





Thanks for looking!

edit for the correct metric to imperial conversions... d'oh!

[Billy M.]

That is a thing of beauty!

[arpthark]

It is a very nice-looking tuba and is in great shape. Mechanically it's very nice, too - the valves are "like buttah" and the compression is excellent. It's also incredibly light - far lighter than my Mirafone 184 or even the small top action Yamaha E-flat I've been playing.

[bort]

Oh thank God you bought that, it was killing me to see that up on Norm's Website. Congratulations, hope you get many years of enjoyment from it!

[arpthark]

Oh thank God you bought that, it was killing me to see that up on Norm's Website. Congratulations, hope you get many years of enjoyment from it!

Me too. For about two years I used a large Willson F as my do-everything tuba. Really great horn - held up in brass band, concert band, orchestra, quintet - but you'll miss (not just the sound, but "being behind the wheel" of) a contrabass after a while.

[arpthark]

Doug Elliott's "A+" shank (meant for kaiser Alex 164s)

My 163 used the A+ shank and it fit as though it had been designed for it. It inserted *exactly* 1" deep. I do not recall him saying it was designed with the 164 in mind at all. It was advertised for the 163 "of older vintage" with those crazy big leadpipes.

My pair of 163s (a BBb and a CC that the A+ both fit perfectly) were made in 1958 and 1959. Just adding information to the pool...

After looking at Doug's page you're right:

"A Alexander 2 different extra-large Alex sizes: A+ is for pre-1970 larger receivers."

Interestingly, the A+ shank completely bottoms out on my 163. Not sure if that's more of an indicator of vintage or rather who was working in the Alexander shop that day...

[Mark E. Chachich]

Congratulations from another Alexander player!
I have been playing an Alexander 163 since 1975, it is my favorite tuba. The first three chairs in the Bel Air Community Band community band use Alexander tubas.

If you want to see our Alexander collection, three tubas and a French Horn model 103 from our Winter Concert, 2014:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38367&p=544308&hili ... nd#p544308" target="_blank" target="_blank

enjoy your Alex!
Mark Chachich
Principal Tuba, Bel Air Community Band

[Tom]

That's a nice looking 163 and if it plays well for you, that's even better. I have had good luck getting information on my tuba by corresponding directly with Alexander in Germany. I sent them the serial number (mine was a Giardinelli tuba from 1983) and they could tell me when it was built, what material it is (yellow or gold brass), what finish it was ordered with, and that it was ordered by Giardinelli for retail stock. Now, the vast majority of Alexanders have no serial numbers, as that was only done to later horns or horns that ran through specific US importers. In that case, I still suggest corresponding with Alexander but you'll likely have to send them detailed photos and then be happy with the closest approximation they can give you. For such an old company and such a small company, they have surprisingly good production records of what was made, especially tubas since they have really not made that many tubas in the grand scheme of things.

You have one of the Kaiser receiver Alexander 163s, which are unusual. Some detail here from Matt Walters re: mouthpiece shank size:

viewtopic.php?t=10390&highlight=euro+am ... tt+walters

My tuba, as an interesting bit of trivia, has the "A" sized receiver, which was apparently the smallest they offered on contrabass tubas. A+ shank mouthpieces do not fit. This means that my choice is to use a Euro shank that fits "ok" or use a Doug Elliott setup with the A shank. The Doug Elliott setup is my preference although it should be said that the L shank Dillon mouthpieces such at the M1CB-L fit great and work very well on this tuba also.

[arpthark]

That's a nice looking 163 and if it plays well for you, that's even better. I have had good luck getting information on my tuba by corresponding directly with Alexander in Germany. I sent them the serial number (mine was a Giardinelli tuba from 1983) and they could tell me when it was built, what material it is (yellow or gold brass), what finish it was ordered with, and that it was ordered by Giardinelli for retail stock. Now, the vast majority of Alexanders have no serial numbers, as that was only done to later horns or horns that ran through specific US importers. In that case, I still suggest corresponding with Alexander but you'll likely have to send them detailed photos and then be happy with the closest approximation they can give you. For such an old company and such a small company, they have surprisingly good production records of what was made, especially tubas since they have really not made that many tubas in the grand scheme of things.

You have one of the Kaiser receiver Alexander 163s, which are unusual. Some detail here from Matt Walters re: mouthpiece shank size:

viewtopic.php?t=10390&highlight=euro+am ... tt+walters

My tuba, as an interesting bit of trivia, has the "A" sized receiver, which was apparently the smallest they offered on contrabass tubas. A+ shank mouthpieces do not fit. This means that my choice is to use a Euro shank that fits "ok" or use a Doug Elliott setup with the A shank. The Doug Elliott setup is my preference although it should be said that the L shank Dillon mouthpieces such at the M1CB-L fit great and work very well on this tuba also.

Thanks for the tips, Tom. I've contacted Alexander directly for some more information. The most curious thing is the 0.630" receiver. It swallows everything I throw in it! I ordered one of the original Alexander mouthpieces on eBay... we will see if that actually fits. I do have an adapter I'm using that works perfectly fine, though.

Robert: I'm glad I've made your two-sizes-too-small heart expand a little.

edit for the correct metric to imperial conversions (16mm = .630")

[gregsundt]

What a find. Congratulations!

[southtubist]

Wow, that horn is in amazing condition! I wish mine looked that good! I bet it plays great.

[Heavy_Metal]

Congratulations from another Alexander player!
I have been playing an Alexander 163 since 1975, it is my favorite tuba. The first three chairs in the Bel Air Community Band community band use Alexander tubas.

If you want to see our Alexander collection, three tubas and a French Horn model 103 from our Winter Concert, 2014:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=38367&p=544308&hili ... nd#p544308" target="_blank

enjoy your Alex!
Mark Chachich
Principal Tuba, Bel Air Community Band

+1. Hopefully at some point you'll get a chance to play in a multiple-Alex section, as we do. There is nothing quite like several Alexanders combining their firepower to create that huge Alex sound. We live for the moments when our director lets us let it rip. BTW, this same Section traveled to Pittsburgh recently when our band was selected to play at the Association of Concert Bands convention. I ran into several tuba players I knew from various places and they all remarked on how focused and uniform our Section sounded.

Big1096 and I will have almost the same thing at this year's Maryland All-State Community Band. The three of us have played together before, but the only returning instrument will be Patrick FitzGerald's Thor. We hadn't gotten our Alexanders yet at that time, so Jim played his Piggy and I played the Sonora. It'll be interesting to see how often Dr. Parker tells us we're too loud, when we were trying not to be

Let us know what the Alexander people tell you about your tuba. I really should ask them about mine..............

[floydr]

Get Doug Elliot to make one like I just had him make for my Alex. Special taper for the big leadpipe. Plays GREAT!

Say you want Floyd's version of big alex shank.

[arpthark]

Quick update: I bought one of the Alex mouthpieces from Custom: http://ebay.com/itm/172215252516?_mwBanner=1" target="_blank

Shank is too small, it bottoms out just like the Doug Elliott A+ shank does and is (ha!) too big for the adapter I use, so I can't actually play it. Might get some Teflon plumbers tape for it since it is actually "close" with just a bit of wiggle. The only mouthpiece that has actually fit this horn as-is is Norm Epley's gigantic-shank JW York mouthpiece.

[bububassboner]

Instead of getting all these custom mouthpieces made just get Alexander to sell you a new leadpipe and receiver. Pitch is much better (no need for all those alternates), it'll be made of gold brass, and they are made now to accept a euro shank mouthpiece (designed with the PT line of mouthpieces in mind fwiw). It'll just make life easier without losing any of that Alexander awesomeness.

[Heavy_Metal]

..........that Alexander awesomeness.

Hey, I thought that was Mark's and my line

[arpthark]

Instead of getting all these custom mouthpieces made just get Alexander to sell you a new leadpipe and receiver. Pitch is much better (no need for all those alternates), it'll be made of gold brass, and they are made now to accept a euro shank mouthpiece (designed with the PT line of mouthpieces in mind fwiw). It'll just make life easier without losing any of that Alexander awesomeness.

This is what I'm thinking for further down the road, but right now my adapter and the occasional alternate fingering are working well for me. Toying with the idea of adding a fifth valve in the future a la Tom McGrady but we'll see.

[bububassboner]

The people at Alexander are very friendly and can help you with all this. The leadpipe isn't that spendy but if you just want an adapter they also makes those and can be had for cheap.

But a new pipe is only gonna be a few hundred buck plus the install price from your local guy. I've played a few older Alex tubas that were restored at the factory and they are killer. It'll be money well spent.

[Ted Cox]

Alexander began using serial numbers in 1975. They are stamped on the top plate of the second valve - very small and four numbers. I doubt your Alex has a number in that location. My guess would be a horn from the 1960's, based on the bracing. You'll most likely never know for sure - but it really doesn't matter. How the bells were made also changed in 1975. Prior to 1975, Alex bells had a gusset - a V shaped spot on the top bow side running from the edge of the bell almost all the way to the top bow. I had Alexander insert an adapter for my 1964 Alex to accept a "normal" mouthpiece. Currently I'm using a Stoffer-Geib American shank and love the result. Very clear and powerful. I use the same mouthpiece on my Alex F. Your Alex looks amazing. If the lead pipe is solid, don't replace it. Adding a 5th valve isn't really a problem. You can order the parts from Alexander. My 1964 Alex cost $495 new, with a hard case and mouthpiece (which I still have). Additional valves back then were $45 - you'll pay a bit more than that now. Jeff Baker of the Dallas Opera recently added a 5th valve to his Alex. You might contact him about the logistics and cost of doing that addition.
Ted Cox

[arpthark]

My Alex has the gusset, so it is definitely pre-1975 based on your information, Ted. No serial where you described. The horn was described to me as a late 1960s model. Thanks for the info and suggestions, everyone.