Rotary valves, p*ssing me off!!!

[Joe Baker]

Are your valves vented? If so, the suction thing won't work unless you can figure a way to cover the vent holes (these are very small holes located on the valve casing between the legs of the valve tubing).
___________________________
Joe Baker, who knows that this is at best a partial answer.

[Will]

The horn may just need to be cleaned. I had the same problem with the rotary valves on my last CC. No matter how much I oiled them, they were still slow (especially the 3rd) and a bit noisy. After I took it to be professionally cleaned, the valve action was great.

[Rick Denney]

I followed the instruction per the following link: http://www.stusmusic.com/icrotor.html for rotary maintance. Maybe I'm missing something but my valves SUCK! They're sluggish and clank. When I removed the backplate to add the oil and then pull the corresponding slide there was no suction. I'm using Hetman's Bearing and Linkage #14 for the backplate and top of rotor; Hetman's Ball Joint #15 for all other joints; and Hetman's Rotor #12 inside the valves through the slides. Am I doing something wrong here?

Blast! I forgot to bring my tools! Grrrr!

That third valve of yours in particular needs to be taken apart and cleaned. The rotor is dragging the casing, and that tells me the instrument has buildup in the valve casings. Let's talk tonight--maybe we can get together at some point.

Rick "who knows it's not the oil" Denney

[Will]

It had been only 5 months after it was cleaned before the valves on my 188 started acting up. Sometimes stuff gets caught up in there like food residue or something. Unless you picked it off the assembly line 3 months ago, there's no telling who has played it and what's been blown in there.

[Rick Denney]

Do you guys really think it just needs a cleaning? The horn is only 3 months old with maybe 15 - 20 hours playing on it.

Yes. New instruments seem to collect desposits on the valves more easily than old instruments--I think that brown patina on old valves and casings provides a surface those calcium deposits won't stick to like they do fresh brass.

I once bought a Vespro/VMI new. I had to disassemble and clean the valves several times before they aged enough not to have the problem.

The trick is to clean them without also cleaning off the brown oxidation.

Rick "who has felt your valves and is nearly positive it's just crud" Denney

[TubaRay]

If you just scan and email your tuba (preferably in PDF...or better yet as WORDPERFECT) so I can point and click away all the problems for you and email it right back. Remember, don't send your tuba as a "private message". I would be too limited in what I could do in that format.

bloke "Some things can't always be fixed over the phone (internet) nor, necessarily, by the owner of a piece of equipment. "

I'm onto you, Bloke. You just want him to email the instrument to you so that you can keep it. You are one of those rascals just trying to scam some POOR INNOCENT TUBA PLAYER out of his axe.

[Dan Schultz]

I followed the instruction per the following link: http://www.stusmusic.com/icrotor.html for rotary maintance. Maybe I'm missing something but my valves SUCK! They're sluggish and clank. When I removed the backplate to add the oil and then pull the corresponding slide there was no suction. I'm using Hetman's Bearing and Linkage #14 for the backplate and top of rotor; Hetman's Ball Joint #15 for all other joints; and Hetman's Rotor #12 inside the valves through the slides. Am I doing something wrong here?

Blast! I forgot to bring my tools! Grrrr!

That third valve of yours in particular needs to be taken apart and cleaned. The rotor is dragging the casing, and that tells me the instrument has buildup in the valve casings. Let's talk tonight--maybe we can get together at some point.

Rick "who knows it's not the oil" Denney

Hey, Rick! I respect your wisdom but how do you know cyras21 is having a problem specific to his 3rd valve?

[TubaTodd]

Hey, Rick! I respect your wisdom but how do you know cyras21 is having a problem specific to his 3rd valve?

By the tone of the message and the fact that they both appear to live in Virginia, I would guess they both play in a community band together....like me and Ken Sloan....or Mike Mason.

QUESTION

When the linkage is removed from a rotar, should you be able to give the valve a spin and have it spin almost as freely as a top?? I believe I learned that to be the test of a clean, free moving, well oiled rotary valve.

QUESTION 2

When I was in High school I owned a rotary valve Cerveny that had valves that were smooth as butter. I never did anything special to them. It had the stock metal linkage that I oiled whenever I remembered. Around that time I got to try a Hirsbrunner HB2 that had recently been restored. To me is seemed that the valves on the HB2 were fast, but VERY hard to press. Is this due to springs with a lot of tension? If so, is it any easy fix to find "softer" (for lack of a better term) springs?

[Rick Denney]

Hey, Rick! I respect your wisdom but how do you know cyras21 is having a problem specific to his 3rd valve?

I'm psychic.

Rick "who thought everyone knew that all Cervenys have sticky and dirty third valves" Denney

[TubaTodd]

Can anyone answer the two questions I posted above? Perhaps Mr. Denney would have an answer regarding the linkage/springs and tension.

[TubaTodd]

When I was putting the valves back together I found them also to be very tight and hard to push down. I just turn the screw a few times until I got the response that I wanted. Also, after I cleaned the valves they spin freely. I'm still wanting a piston valve tuba if anyone is interested in a trade.

I believe the Hirsbrunner I spoke of had homemade style linkage a la "Rick Denney". With that kind of linkage there is no screw to adjust.

[Rick Denney]

When I was putting the valves back together I found them also to be very tight and hard to push down. I just turn the screw a few times until I got the response that I wanted. Also, after I cleaned the valves they spin freely. I'm still wanting a piston valve tuba if anyone is interested in a trade.

Which screw is that? Do you mean the screw in the end of the ball joint at the stop arm? Did that need adjusting?

Rick "who doesn't remember any relevant screw" Denney

[Rick Denney]

I believe the Hirsbrunner I spoke of had homemade style linkage a la "Rick Denney". With that kind of linkage there is no screw to adjust.

The ball joints I use have screws to adjust the tension, but the screws should really be used just to take up most of the slack and no more.

Miraphones have screws in the back caps that can be used to take up thrust wear, but this is a stop-gap until a proper repair can be done.

Yes, valves should spin freely, but not like a top, unless you use a very light oil (like valve oil). And such a light oil will not do a good job of preventing wear. Oil for rotor shafts should be about the thickness of light machine oil, which is still light but heavier than valve oil. It will damp the spinning a bit. The important thing is that while there may be damping, there is no mechanical drag from buildup around the rotor bodies or from the rear plate being misaligned when it was reinstalled. You'll know it when it's right.

The typical springs used these days are not adjustible, but they may be wound too tightly. When you reassemble, the spring only needs to be wound just enough to move the valve through it's travel. Making springs tight to overcome friction that shouldn't be there is the wrong solution.

Rick "who thinks pistons have their issues, too" Denney

[TubaTodd]

Thank you Rick for your response. I remember asking the HB owner about the stiffness of the valves and the answer I got left me puzzled. The person said "it makes me faster on other tubas." Other tubas.....other than YOUR Hirsbrunner? The person was a very good player. The answer was confusing.

I wish that Conn would make an option for 52/56J tubas for there to be a rotary valve set that could be attached to the same body* (Since the valve set is removable). If you could reuse MOST if not all of the slides then it could be more economical. I think having an interchangeable tuba like that would be the next great thing in the world of tubas......or the next gimic (flavor of the month). Hee hee...reminds me of Almond Joy and Mounds.

"Sometimes you feel like a nut (pistons)...sometimes you don't (rotars).

* To be truthful I am unaware of the logistics of this idea. It was just a thought. You have to admit....it would be pretty kewl.