Bowl Mouthpiece help

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royjohn
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Re: Bowl Mouthpiece help

Post by royjohn »

On a more serious note...looking at the discussion here, it looks like the throat diameter would determine how efficient the mpc is in using air. So if I want something that will help in this department, then should I pick a mpc with a fairly narrow throat (~8.2mm or a little less?) and adjust the other parameters (rim diameter, mpc shape, mpc depth, backbore) to produce the kind of sound I want, or is there more to it than that?
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Donn
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Re: Bowl Mouthpiece help

Post by Donn »

Yes, there appears to be more to it. Or less, but anyway, not just like that. I've been kind of persistent about the throat sizes of these common Bach mouthpieces, because they're very well known - and there's a perception that the 24AW has an especially large throat, while the 18 is the ultimate vanilla mouthpiece. So it's interesting that the published throat dimensions appear to be the same.

The 24AW does have a relatively large throat, and apparently it must play like we expect with a mouthpiece with a large throat, so it reinforces that idea, but when you start checking that against various mouthpieces at random, I believe it would break down very quickly. My latest random example: an old Dillon F1 I've been giving a little time, against my Conn 7B. The F1 is bigger, and it needs more breath support, and ... surprise, slightly smaller throat than the 7B.

Now, when you get to balancing throat with all the other parameters - it's hard to argue with that. Easier said than done, though. Might also need to factor in the tuba and its natural resistance etc.
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Re: Bowl Mouthpiece help

Post by royjohn »

Hi Donn,
Thanks for your reply...I get the part about "no, it's not just the throat and some mpcs with larger throats don't actually take more air," but beyond that I'm not sure what you are saying...or are you just saying it is a complicated relationship and you just have to cut-and-try and figure it out empirically?
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Re: Bowl Mouthpiece help

Post by Donn »

I don't know of another way, besides empirical trial - and of course that can lead you down the wrong path, too, but at least there you can exercise your awareness and judgement and hope to come out ahead. I'm all for conventional wisdom, if it isn't based on abysmal ignorance, but in this matter it appears there's some risk it might be. But right now I'm just asking - what are those throat sizes? Is there a better explanation? etc.
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Re: Bowl Mouthpiece help

Post by royjohn »

Well, today I'm testing mpcs in my Miraclone, looking for the best tone, the least "vanilla" tone. Oddly enough, given this thread, the best mpc for tone seems to be a Benge 24AW. Then, just holding a mid-range note as long as possible, using that (throat 8.84mm by lookup) and my Bobo Symphonic (throat 7.5mm by lookup) there seems to be little difference in how long I can hold a note. In fact, the 24AW may do a little better. the Bobo is the shallowest mpc I have, and the 24AW is medium deep. The 24AW is 31.25mm in diameter while the Bobo is 32.90mm. The backbores don't seem too much different, as far as I can tell. Total cup volume might be about the same, but they're quite different mpcs, yet my ability to hold a note seems dependent more on my vital capacity and ability to hold my breath than it does on the mpc. I sure would like to try this same test with different tubas...has anyone done something like this?
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Re: Bowl Mouthpiece help

Post by iiipopes »

Some years ago, I had the same issue, especially for sousaphone. I had Jim New when he was still at Kanstul make me one of their "18" models, which has the slightly smaller throat, but I had Jim widen the cup from 1.26 to 1.28 for my personal preference. I still have it, but am not using it right now. If you would like to borrow it to see what you think, please sent me a PM.
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Re: Bowl Mouthpiece help

Post by Three Valves »

Three Valves wrote:
barry grrr-ero wrote:
I've never tried a Bach 12...
I haven't even seen one!!
I have one!!

It solves the problems of the 24AW and the 18 without sacrificing tone or getting crazy big or expensive.

I judge it; "OK for now!!" :tuba:
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