Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

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BBruce107
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Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by BBruce107 »

Hi all,

This question has intrigued me for a while and I am curious to hear what you all think on this. I am a tuba performance major and I have been playing bass trombone as a double for seven years but recently have thought about if it would be more practical to double on cimbasso rather than bass trombone. From what I know about cimbasso (which is quite limited) it can play the same music as a bass trombone but it would use a tuba sized mouthpiece which from an outside observation makes more sense than using a different sized mouthpiece and bore. On the other hand with my personal experience on bass trombone the bore does not bother me as much as it did. I am going into my last year of undergrad and already own both a contrabass tuba and bass tuba and I am curious if I were to sell my bass trombone and invest in a cimbasso if I would be able to still continue to play the ensembles where I play bass trombone just on the cimbasso or would it be smarter to just keep with the bass trombone? I do eventually plan on investing in a cimbasso later on but as I look into grad school it seems that the gigs will be mostly (if not all of them) tuba oriented. Thank you in advance!
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Steginkt
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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by Steginkt »

Keep the bass trombone.
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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by Bob Kolada »

Bass trombone and cimbasso are about as interchangeable as bass and contrabass trombone.
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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by hup_d_dup »

Check this Chris Olka video review of a Dillon cimbasso.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEa4VqsXBug" target="_blank

In this video Chris addresses many interesting aspects of cimbasso performance, including the suitability of playing big band bass trombone parts on cimbasso.

By the way, although Chris does not mention it in the video, he was double major (tuba/trombone) in school but now plays only tuba and cimbasso.

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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by PaulMaybery »

I use both but would not consider the cimbasso a practical trade off for the BT. Frequenly the bass trombone is the 3rd voice of the trombone section (not the bottom voice) where there is already the tuba on the 4th or bottom voice. To stick a cimbasso in the mix on that 3rd part would not make real sense as the cimbasso really was intended for the bottom part. On the other hand, to take the cimbasso and use it on the 4th part, instead of the tuba, is a good option and one that I do quite often in pops orchestras in particular. One more, "on the other hand:" To use the bass trombone as a substitute for the cimbasso (and ok, the tuba) is not so much a problem. Many times the great opera orchestras in America, before the days of the accessability of the cimbasso, would add an additional bass trombone to use used on that part in the Italian repertory. I WOULD NOT GIVE UP THE BASS TROMBONE.
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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by Donn »

bloke wrote:Further, far more bass trombonists tend to be masters-of their instruments, rather than doublers-on their instruments.
That's a point in favor the cimbasso, right?

It seems to me that plenty of tuba players have been picking up the cimbasso as a double. You all would perhaps have been more positive about the proposition if BBruce107 hadn't framed it the way he did.
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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by BBruce107 »

I must not have phrased the proposition properly. Most of my bass trombone performances are big band settings. I do not claim to be a great bass trombone player but with how long I have played it exclusively as a double the question of possibly switching to cimbasso for that setting came to mind. I am much more comfortable as a tuba player than bass trombone and my logic was primarily to see what opinions would surface when posed with the question. Once I am in grad school I plan to focus on tuba playing which in most cases are impractical in big bands however the range could be attained with a cimbasso which seemed like a logical switch.
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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by Donn »

BBruce107 wrote:Once I am in grad school I plan to focus on tuba playing which in most cases are impractical in big bands however the range could be attained with a cimbasso which seemed like a logical switch.
Do you mean, you could continue with your big band gigs, playing the bass trombone parts on cimbasso, because you're no longer going to have time to keep up your bass trombone chops?
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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by BBruce107 »

Do you mean, you could continue with your big band gigs, playing the bass trombone parts on cimbasso, because you're no longer going to have time to keep up your bass trombone chops?[/quote]

That is my reasoning in this case yes. As Bloke also previously stated it is like another F tuba which I am very comfortable with so the design and sound of a cimbasso being more relatable to an over sized bass trombone makes a reasonable assumption that it could be used in a big band setting without a major switch of mouthpiece size from tuba.
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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by Z-Tuba Dude »

Depending on which big bands you play with, a cimbasso may, or may not, be a welcome visitor.

A professional group might be more reluctant to accept such an "oddity".

I have experienced both attitudes.
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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by barry grrr-ero »

I'm currently using a G&P cimbasso in a community college jazz band, splitting the 4th book with a trombonist who doesn't own a bass trombone. Let me tell you, it's a steep learning curve. I can honk out great 'blatty' low notes, but the horn is rather 'dark' or covered sounding in the middle and upper mid ranges. It's also a tad slow to speak. I'm playing along with the fourth trombonist in order to work on my F fingerings (completely new to me), but will probably just play the low 'whack-a-mole' notes in concert. With the piston valves, I can execute the fast 'licks' in the upper mid range better than most trombonists. It just comes out sounding 'covered', is all. Frankly, only a really good bass trombonist could compete in the cellar range. My understanding is that the G&P is more tuba-like than most other cimbassi.

I'm asking Doug Elliott to come up with a m.p. that will give me a brighter and faster speaking tone. The receiver takes something close to a Euroshank. I'd like to have a m.p. that has the normal width of a cimbasso/contrabass-trombone piece, but a bit shallower (perhaps). Doug could easily slap one together, but he has to fabricate the shank from scratch. I've also sent an e-mail to G&P to see if they make a smaller neck/receiver piece. My guess is they don't, but there's no harm in asking.

If this horn doesn't work out for what I want to do with it, I'll sell it off. I was planning on doing this for just 2 or 3 years anyway, unless it becomes a huge hit (not likely). I can tell you this much: it makes for an INCREDIBLE CONVERSATION PIECE. I've had numerous people come up to take pix of it. I have a feeling one of these could really kick butt in a loud rock band.

In case you're interested, the two m.p.'s I'm using are, 1). a Miraphone "R. Winston Morris" F tuba m.p. (relatively wide and shallow, but also sits in just a tad too far in the receiver), and 2). a JK (Kleier) "exclusive" m.p. that - I presume - came with the horn. It's narrower, but also a tad deep. I'd like to have something close to that Kleier piece but shallower. Bloke? . . .
Last edited by barry grrr-ero on Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cimbasso vs Bass Trombone

Post by barry grrr-ero »

Well what do you know, I'm now getting to solo on a version of "Makin' Whoopee" that was used by the Basie band. The tessitura is pretty low - the part says bass trombone or tuba, but it lays perfectly on the cimbasso. Since F fingerings are still new to me, I really need to wood shed this thing and make it sound nice. Wish me luck.

Barry
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