Improve high register

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Patrase
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Improve high register

Post by Patrase »

Is it more likely than not that practice on a baritone (brass band type) will improve my tuba high register playing? Anyone else do something similar and can share their experiences?
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Re: Improve high register

Post by Ken Herrick »

It might but, why not expand your range on tuba instead of taking on a different instrument - unless of course you really want to.

A very good way to work on expanding range is to copy scale and arpeggio excercises and etudes like Kopprasch out using a notation program like muse score. Then transpose them up and down until you have the full range covered. Taking one example at a time, practice, starting in a mid range key then work upward and downward going higher and lower until you get to the limits of your comfort zone. In a day or two you will likely find the comfort zone has expanded. An hour a day spent doing a few items this way will give results. Strive to maintain your best sound and least necessary embouchure shift. Work at varying dynamic levels. Done diligently on a daily basis for even only a couple weeks you should find your range and overall technique steadily improving. The exercises in the "Also Sprach Arnold Jacobs" book are also good material to work this way.

This approach also works with some of the riskier excerpts such as the solo line from Mahler 1. I used to practice it in all keys working down to the pedal range up to an octave above where it is written. Always strive for your best sound and musical expression.

Don't force things by trying to go too fast.

A few years ago, after many years of no playing I did this and within 3 months was back in shape to the point where, except for brushing up on some literature, I would not have been afraid to do a fairly high level orchestra audition. Probably not many jobs would be given to somebody over 65 though.
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Roger Lewis
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Re: Improve high register

Post by Roger Lewis »

Take a look at my post here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4051&hilit=High+range" target="_blank


I think it will help you.
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swillafew
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Re: Improve high register

Post by swillafew »

I have a euphonium, a trombone, an F tuba, and a BBb tuba. I top out around the F above middle C on each and every one of those horns. Careful practice on the trombone or euph. will yield a little more, but it goes away very quickly too.

The highest pitches sound the best when I do a lot of arpeggios, ascending and/or descending, working up chromatically. If the practice regimen is anything less than "the old college try", (as much as I can stand) then time spent above the staff is a poor investment of the time. The arpeggios in other ranges are a solid use of the time.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by opus37 »

There are two exercise books from Encore Publishing that are designed to help develop the high range. There is also an Exercise book by Oystein Baadsvik that helps with this development. They actually start by working on the low register and gradually work you higher. They involve a lot of scales and arpeggios. You can develop your own routine, but sometimes these programmed sources are easier. The important thing is to work on it every day. I don't think taking up another instrument will help. In fact, it may slow you down because you will be taking time away from your primary horn and objective.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by Donn »

swillafew wrote:I have a euphonium, a trombone, an F tuba, and a BBb tuba. I top out around the F above middle C on each and every one of those horns. Careful practice on the trombone or euph. will yield a little more, but it goes away very quickly too.
Just for the sake of discussion, does this perhaps suggest that the answer might be "yes" - there could be some value in working with a baritone? Not a lot of value, but it depends on what you're trying to do.

The point I'm getting is that the ability to produce a certain note isn't particularly governed by the size of the instrument - but I think it's fair to say, a smaller instrument and mouthpiece is a little more supportive for high notes. One of my troubles with high range for a long time, was that I strained at it. Maybe using too much muscle instead of the right muscle, or something. If you work on the same notes on a more supportive smaller instrument, and if in that context you can play them much more efficiently, you have something you might be able to bring back to the big mouthpiece. Maybe not worth the trouble, on its own, but who knows, there may be some value in playing the baritone anyway.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by Travis99079 »

bloke wrote: - Try to not suck.
Wise words, indeed.

:lol:
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Re: Improve high register

Post by chronolith »

Travis99079 wrote:
bloke wrote: - Try to not suck.
Wise words, indeed.

:lol:
Ken Herrick wrote:unless of course you really want to.
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swillafew
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Re: Improve high register

Post by swillafew »

Just for the sake of discussion, does this perhaps suggest that the answer might be "yes" - there could be some value in working with a baritone?
I had reasons for learning the doubles; I don't think there anything I would call an outright benefit to my tuba playing coming from the doubling.

I pickup up euphonium at the request of a teacher, and got a lot better parts on the euphonium in high school band. Trombone helped me to be included in a jazz band. So musical development was certainly there. It prompted some extra time getting the chops ready for the neglected instrument.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by DouglasJB »

I am waiting on an Eb tuba to finish so I can start playing it,until then I have been using the school owned F (I miss my 6V Strauss sometimes...) I am working on Yorkshire Ballad which reaches up to a high Ab, since I will perform this on Eb I have been learing it up a while step (same fingerings as I would use on Eb tuba) which takes me up to As and Bbs. Good practice.

Point is, transpose a piece you are working on up a step or however far it is that you need to start working on.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by Leland »

swillafew wrote:I have a euphonium, a trombone, an F tuba, and a BBb tuba. I top out around the F above middle C on each and every one of those horns.
To take this further, I also have the same upper limit on trumpet/fluegelhorn/alto/French horn/etc as I do on any of the low brasses. That is, it's all the same "absolute" limit, like the same note on the piano (give or take a few steps), not the same "relative" pitch (a "dubba C" on trumpet is way out of reach for me).
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Re: Improve high register

Post by k001k47 »

Pressure.

But the tight gut - which everyone says is "old school" misinformation - is resultant, not causative; all that tightness in the gut, or the vasalva maneuver, does is restrict your air supply. Feel instead that the pressure occurs in the mouth and at the lips. A good way to feel this is where you do that breathing gym exercise where you breathe in then cover your mouth with your hand for the exhalation, feel the pressure, then remove your hand.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by k001k47 »

bloke is right: the best way to get good at doing something is to do it. Thinking about doing it only gets you so far. Working on the ear is a good idea too. The "slots" in the higher ranges are narrower, and the room for error is much smaller. And as discussed in the free blowing thread, the lack of pressure, or resistance, causes fatigue, which is why playing around c4 on tuba is tiring, but a breeze on Euph.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by Mark »

Adding to bloke's advice...

You can buy some beginner to intermediate trombone books with fun songs you know, e.g. movie themes. Play them a couple of times down a octave, in the tuba range. Then, once you have those tunes in you ear, play them as written.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by anonymous4 »

bloke wrote: :arrow: :arrow: The only REAL way, though, to improve high-range ~SECURITY~ is to GREATLY improve the ability to HEAR pitches to be played PRIOR TO playing them. Without this, there is no target. Playing a brass instrument "by feel" (rather than "by ear") is epically frustrating, and requires FAR TOO MUCH practice time with FAR TOO MUCH trial-and-error to obtain the desired results.
IF :?: there is a "trick", then THIS :idea: is the "trick".
This isn't just a beginner problem, as I knew many music majors that could only play by feel. They would log looooooong hours in the practice room, but their recitals were pretty so-so for all that time. Private teachers, it is of critical importance that you figure out which of your students can actually read/hear music, and which ones learn their lesson materials by rote every week. Believe me, college students have a lot of time on their hands, and some of them can "fake it" for years. Also, always ask what grade they get in aural skills. Of course, everyone always passes, but if your student has a C, it probably means they can't hear jack.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by Patrase »

Thanks for all everyone's comments.

My original thought was based on some experiences I have had. I play Bb tuba in a Brass Band for 95% of my playing time. Occasionally the conductor in the brass band has moved a horn or baritone player on to the Eb tuba part. I usually find that the player moved down to tuba doesn't use anywhere near enough air in the middle and lower registers. Their middle and lower registers are pretty awful. BUT they have fantastic high register sounds.

So I thought I could play a higher pitched instrument and then move back down to tuba and *voila* - I have a great high register just like my higher pitched band mates moving down to tuba. I have access to a Baritone and an Arbans book. I thought it would be potentially more interesting to learn to play a new instrument, that also benefits my high register playing, as opposed to playing a bunch of arpeggios and exercises. Also my wife likes the sound of the Baritone more than me playing exercises on a tuba.

I might give it a try at some point and report on the experiment. Otherwise I will certainly take on board everyone's advice.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by k001k47 »

anonymous4 wrote:
bloke wrote: :arrow: :arrow: The only REAL way, though, to improve high-range ~SECURITY~ is to GREATLY improve the ability to HEAR pitches to be played PRIOR TO playing them. Without this, there is no target. Playing a brass instrument "by feel" (rather than "by ear") is epically frustrating, and requires FAR TOO MUCH practice time with FAR TOO MUCH trial-and-error to obtain the desired results.
IF :?: there is a "trick", then THIS :idea: is the "trick".
This isn't just a beginner problem, as I knew many music majors that could only play by feel. They would log looooooong hours in the practice room, but their recitals were pretty so-so for all that time. Private teachers, it is of critical importance that you figure out which of your students can actually read/hear music, and which ones learn their lesson materials by rote every week. Believe me, college students have a lot of time on their hands, and some of them can "fake it" for years. Also, always ask what grade they get in aural skills. Of course, everyone always passes, but if your student has a C, it probably means they can't hear jack.
Public schooling really isn't doing kids favors either, because music programs are frequently fighting cuts, and early childhood music classes are largely neglected. When I was a kid in high school, the best thing I did for my musicianship was join the choir; nearly did that in kollij instead of developing the useless tuba skill. All that tubaing was fun, though.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by Donn »

Patrase wrote:I might give it a try at some point and report on the experiment. Otherwise I will certainly take on board everyone's advice.
I vote for option #1. Following our advice will only bring you sorrow.
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Re: Improve high register

Post by Slamson »

I think Bloke gets the nod for most effective, impactful advice, but Roger's methodology is great. I would add an anecdote - one that I'm almost embarrassed to admit.
A friend of mine had a fifth-grader who was going to start on tuba (this is getting rare, I'm afraid...), and asked me to give him lessons.
At the time I thought "hmmmm... 'Tabula Rasa'! No pre-conceived ideas about brass playing, or the tuba for that matter."
At our first lesson, I told this fellow that the "tuning note" for his tuba was B-flat3 (the one on the top of the staff), and played it for him. Not knowing any better, he struggled for a moment, and played it himself within the first 5 minutes of the lesson. Then we tackled the F below, as a "low" note.
By his fourth lesson he was nailing the E-flat and F above middle C. Remember, he was a Fifth-Grader.

The moral of the story is akin to what Roger said - there's a "gimmick", and one of the biggest "gimmicks" is to rid ourselves of the notion that the so-called "high range" is tough. Then, like Bloke said, "do it".
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Re: Improve high register

Post by MaryAnn »

Roger Lewis wrote:Take a look at my post here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4051&hilit=High+range" target="_blank" target="_blank


I think it will help you.
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