Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

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adsteve
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Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by adsteve »

I am sure this has been discussed ad nauseam, so I do apologize if anyone is offended by double posts.

The title says it all, I am trying to decide between a new Dillon 410 186 clone and a used Miraphone 186. What are your thoughts, is the latter worth the extra money? If so, what are you getting with the Miraphone that the clone would not provide. Thanks in advance for your input.
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by adsteve »

Noted, I am planning on chatting with him this afternoon.
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by Sousaswag »

If the 186 has no/small issues, (dents, lacquer wear, etc.) buying used is nearly always a better choice than Chinese imho. It will *probably* last you longer and have less problems. I have read that Chinese horns, particularly rotary ones, have lots of linkage problems. Nothing that can't be worked out, but it's there. Plus, it's a Miraphone 186. Seems to me that lots of people consider them the best rotary BBb. Good luck in your search :tuba:
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by Three Valves »

bloke wrote:
Image
What kinda Kangaroo Court is that, fella?? :shock:

Oh, to me, the answer is, if there is anything suspect about the used Miraphone;

Go Clone!!

:tuba:
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by royjohn »

Be aware that the used Miraphone will hold its value, whereas a new 410 will lose 30 to 50% of its value once used. Also, at a fair market price the Miraphone will be easier to resell than the clone. That said, there's a difference in price between the used Miraphone and a new 410 and even more of a difference if you can find a used 410. So available funds have something to do with it, possibly. You probably need to play some of each...some folks feel the Miraphone sounds better and some don't see that much of a difference.

Sounds like a trip to Dillon's or one of the other tuba meccas would be in order, if you're located right. :D :D :D

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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by BBruce107 »

I personally just acquired a Mack 410 with a gold brass bell and I like it better than the Miraphone 186. I am an odd one but I loathe the Miraphone 186.
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by toobagrowl »

^ You are not alone, BBruce. Also not a fan of the modern Miraphone 186 or really, most of the modern 18X series. I can recognize they are good tubas and many ppl like them, but they are just too generic/ho-hum for my tastes. I do like the vintage Mirafone 186 better. But even then, there are several other comparable rotary tubas from other makers that I prefer even over a vintage 186 :!:
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by royjohn »

toobagrowl said
But even then, there are several other comparable rotary tubas from other makers that I prefer even over a vintage 186
And those are??? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by adsteve »

Anyone know anywhere I can try one of these in the Chicago area? Obviously it would be better to drive to the factory, but I won't have the time to make a long trip for quite some time.

Thanks everyone for sharing your input!
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by adsteve »

Do they make a Chinese version of the Bond Submarine car?
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by TheGoyWonder »

is there not any SHAME in buying a chyna tuba, even if it did work? with its goofy made-up name emblazened on the bell and case for all to see and laugh at?
What happened to decorum??
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by eupher61 »

BBruce107 wrote:I personally just acquired a Mack 410 with a gold brass bell and I like it better than the Miraphone 186. I am an odd one but I loathe the Miraphone 186.
yes, that is odd, since the only real difference is the material. Yes, the specifics of the valves and linkage are a little different, but all in all the design is pretty much identical.
Agreed that a 186 will hold value better. But, depending on the era of the 186, the Miraclone could be better. I'd certainly trust one from Dillon or Mack. Others, maybe not so much.
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by joh_tuba »

Wade's assessment is good.

The German made horns *can* have problems but *never* to the degree or frequency of any Chinese horn to date.

If you buy a rotary chinese tuba just assume that you'll eventually have trouble with the valves and budget accordingly.

Something to think about:
It's common to open a chinese rotor and see jagged tubes that were cut with a hacksaw, never deburred, and sloppily soldered in place. The rotors themselves have MUCH sharper machined edges(far less finish work) that can and will catch and drag on calcification as the horn ages and sees more use. <--- THESE are problems that are inherent to the instrument and can not be readily addressed on the cheap by a repairman. You will need to get these horns serviced more often.

Something else to think about:
The cost of buying German made rotors and a paddle assembly will be more than the cost of an entire chinese made tuba. This is your cost prior to paying to have them installed. Just upgrading the linkage itself to Meinl Weston minibal(I personally prefer the larger more robust MW links to the cheaper Miraphone part) could easily run you a grand.

So sure.. The Chinese horns are pretty great for the money.. BUT you will never make it into something that is as good as the German equivalent.

Just go in fully informed and you'll be fine.
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by eupher61 »

Since the elephant won't divulge his preferences on vintage, I will mine. about 1967- 72 and after about 1996. When they started coming out with all the cool names instead of just numbers, things seemed to turn around greatly. the 18x are still workhorses without the sexiness of the newer ones.

Glancing at the Miraphone website, which I haven't done in a long time, it appears they now call it the "86" and the "90". Are the 184 and 188 things of the past?
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Re: Dillon 410 vs. Miraphone 186

Post by toobagrowl »

royjohn wrote:toobagrowl said
But even then, there are several other comparable rotary tubas from other makers that I prefer even over a vintage 186
And those are??? Inquiring minds want to know.
I'm a pretty big fan of Meinl/B&S tubas, particularly the rotary contrabasses, old and new. So, comparable 4/4 ish rotary contrabasses: M-W 32, M-W 20, M-W 25, PT-1(One I tooted on years ago was a sweet vintage 1980s great-condition B&S PT-1 BBb), PT-2, Sonora/Musica BBb & CC, etc. And I also like the Alex 163 BBb & CC, Rudy Meinl "3/4" CC. I even like the Cerveny 681/686 BBb and St. Pete BBb tubas at least as much as a vintage 186. Hey you asked :twisted: :tuba:
eupher61 wrote:
BBruce107 wrote:I personally just acquired a Mack 410 with a gold brass bell and I like it better than the Miraphone 186. I am an odd one but I loathe the Miraphone 186.
yes, that is odd, since the only real difference is the material. Yes, the specifics of the valves and linkage are a little different, but all in all the design is pretty much identical.
Well, Wade "The Elephant" states that the bell shape/taper is different on a Mack 410 than a real Mira 186. A different bell shape/taper can have a dramatic effect on sound :idea:
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