Old Miraphone 186

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tubacharlie
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Old Miraphone 186

Post by tubacharlie »

I'm thinking about buying a very old Miraphone which they say is a 186 BBb Tuba that has been a high school horn. I have never seen or heard of one with a detachable bell in fact it has a straight and a recording bell. The condition is playable but it looks like a well used school horn. Did the 186 come with a detachable bell and does anyone have an idea how old it is?
Did the old Miraphones play as good as today's.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by Voisi1ev »

I'd say at least 7 grand, and buy the band teacher a few drinks.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by Voisi1ev »

Pictures

https://imgur.com/a/qBcb6

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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by tubacharlie »

Thanks for the photo. I'm very interested
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by rodgeman »

I have one from the 60's with a detachable recording bell. Plays better than the one I had a few years ago with the same vintage but with a straight, non detachable bell.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by Dan Schultz »

Where is the horn in question located? I've built quite a few detachable upright bells for the Miraphone 186.

I've never had one come to me with only an upright detachable bell. I think the rationale of the detachable recording bell was in order to provide cases for recording bell horns. The cases for tubas with fixed recording bells were pretty large and difficult to handle.

I'm sure Miraphone sold the 186 with BOTH detachable bells but I've not seen one that way.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by Voisi1ev »

To clarify, the horn has a recording and straight bell and both have the Mirafone detailing around the edge and a logo, so I assume both were made for the horn.

I've e-mailed Miraphone to get more info, does look like mid to late eighties though.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by PaulMaybery »

These were relatively popular at the University of Minnesota from the 1960s when Stan Freese performed as tuba soloist with the U of M Band on their tour to Russia. A member on Tubenet is a fellow from that generation at the U and could probably shed more accurate light on it. I remember a gig with Stan from about 15 years ago and he brought along that very same Mirafone. Stan's dad Harold Freese, author of a rather successful band instruction book, was band director (I believe) at a Middle School in Edina, Minnesota. I recall being at the Edina HS for a reherarsal 2 years back and there was one of these in the band room.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by Dan Schultz »

Voisi1ev wrote:To clarify, the horn has a recording and straight bell and both have the Mirafone detailing around the edge and a logo, so I assume both were made for the horn.

I've e-mailed Miraphone to get more info, does look like mid to late eighties though.
Do both bells sport the same serial number?
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by Voisi1ev »

No serial on the bell, it has the logo on the side and normal Miraphone detailing on the edge of the bell.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by tubacharlie »

Thanks for the information. I cant wait to give it a try. Currently I'm playing a Yamaha 321 that was a school horn and seen better days. I had to replace all the valves since they were pitted and worn and the lead pipe was leaking. The repairs helped but I'm at the point now I think I need a better quality tuba which is easier to handle and has a better sound since I'm in a low brass ensemble and perform with voisi1ev and I sure don't want the tubas to sound bad.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by groth »

There was one that recently sold a few months ago on eBay for a nice price. Mid-80's is also my guess. I remember these being top heavy and overall, heavier than fixed bells.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by iiipopes »

bloke wrote:I believe I can guess what occurred:

1. The original recording bell was not wanted.
2. The wish for an upright bell was made known to a shop.
3. The shop ordered a new 17-3/4" bell, removed the collar from the original recording bell, installed it on the new bell, cut the new bell, and polished and lacquered the new bell.

bloke "minimally invasive"
That is EXACTLY the case with my 186. Vince took the collar off the recording bell and put it on a chopped St Pete bell. The problem was the bell was too short, and required the main tuning slide to be lengthened. That caused the happy accident of almost completely "fixing" the typical "flat-fifth-partials." So when I put my upright Besson bell on it, I had my tech trim it to the same length to keep the longer main tuning slide. See my thread you can search for "Bessophone."
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by tubacharlie »

Just an update on the 186.
I just started playing it and so far so good. It's a very nice tuba, very well balanced and in very good shape. It's the first tuba I have played with rotors not piston valves and that is going to take a little to get use to. Also having the lead pipe on the other side of the bell makes viewing the music a little different. I can feel the higher quality of the 186 over my Yamaha 321. Since I have never had a tuba with rotors before any advise on care and maintenance would be good. They seem to be a lot more mechanical and fragile then pistons so any advise on how not to damage them would be great. I always wanted a Miraphone since I played my buddies 191 and I think this might be the one. So far I cant hear much difference in sound between the 321 and 186 except the low end of the 186 is excellent. The 186 seems to tune better also.
If all goes well and I can justify spending the money on the 186 I think I will be a Miraphone man.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by Mike C855B »

the elephant wrote:
Dan Schultz wrote:I think the rationale of the detachable recording bell was in order to provide cases for recording bell horns.
I have surmised this, too. It is the same reason that sousaphone bells are detachable. I don't believe for a minute that it was to adjust the angle of the bell for the player; it was strictly for the sake of getting the thing into a case. When you can lay the circular body over the bell then the one case works well enough, but with a concert tuba body you must have a separate case. ...
Forum noob late to the party, but can confirm. I played a 186-4R in the '70s. It was bought by the school with just the recording bell and no straight, I s'pose to "match" the three Besson recording basses they already had. Rotating the bell in the mount accomplished little, although if the orchestra setup was different than normal, the ability to move it for better sight line on the conductor was appreciated.

The bell case was a pain, even more so after somebody came along while I was putting my stuff away, sat on the case like it was a chair... but I wasn't done yet, the bell was cockeyed in the case. Big crease, thankyouverymuch. :x

I really liked that horn, great range and tone and oh, the volume you could put through it - it could peel paint off the auditorium ceiling. :twisted:
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by ronr »

I play one of these from 1970 (serial number 6000. How cool is that!) Great horn in great shape. I have both bells but never use the recording bell. Well, at least not for its’ intended purpose.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by Peach »

ronr wrote: I have both bells but never use the recording bell. Well, at least not for its’ intended purpose.
I feel like this point needs expanding! :D
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by iiipopes »

Peach wrote:
ronr wrote: I have both bells but never use the recording bell. Well, at least not for its’ intended purpose.
I feel like this point needs expanding! :D
You have already expanded it...in a manner of speaking. :shock:
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by The Big Ben »

If those pictures are of the horn, it looks darn good. I had a BBb186 with detachable bell for a little while. I did not have the recording bell but it was a straight bell with Mirafone Kranz so I'm pretty sure it was factory. I had factory cases (I think) the case for the upright bell looked like a hat box. It's been a few years but I think the SN# was from the early 60s. Appearance wise, it was kind of a roach and I had the valves/s-links rebuilt and they were quiet and worked great. Nothin' wrong with S-Links if they are in good shape or were refit by someone who knew what was up. I had a new mouthpipe installed. It had one of those knife-edge keels which was *not* comfortable to play. Someone offered me enough to cover all my costs plus a little bit so I sold it.

The only things wrong with it were the appearance (ugly) and the keel. It would have been too expensive to have the appearance fixed but I could have had the keel removed. Otherwise, the valves were great and it played great. I think I had too much money in it and I knew I didn't want to keep it forever. When I received the offer, I let it go.

You may have a use for the recording bell, you may not. They are useful when playing outside. Someone may beg you to buy it and you could sell it if you wanted to. Or not.
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Re: Old Miraphone 186

Post by ronr »

Peach wrote:
ronr wrote: I have both bells but never use the recording bell. Well, at least not for its’ intended purpose.
I feel like this point needs expanding! :D
Let’s just say I might use it to improve my aim...wastebasket; what’s wrong with you guys!
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