Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by bort »

bububassboner wrote:Man you think Americans are picky about silly things like the key of the horn you should come out here. I have, no joke, seen players out here not even pick up a horn because it doesn't "look right". First time I saw this was with an Alexander double tuba. Okay, well that is an interesting design so maybe I understand that. The last time time I saw it was at the musikmesse and was in regard to the Miraphone Siegfried. The guy was listening to me play it and I asked he he wanted to try it. He said "No, it has too many valves and doesn't look like a Kaiser tuba."
Sounds like my kind of place. :)

I've definitely played a tuba before that sounded just fine, but I knew I'd never buy it because it was "funny looking."
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by JohnSzkutko »

I want to know why there is a lyre holder and marching strap lugs on a very expensive 5/4 Bb tuba? :wink:
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by tubeast »

Oh, that´s very easy: both come in handy when you need to play a standup-birthday gig for one of the orchestra patrons.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by Wyvern »

Remember even Kaiser tubas are used for marching in Germany. Was not the MW 197 Hilgers BBb not based on one used in Hiltler's Guard Band?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by iiipopes »

kmorgancraw wrote:It's a Miraphone clone of the B&S...those Germans, always copying everyone else...
Yes. Now that the GR-51 and its big brother the GR-55 have taken off, well, now it is Miraphone's turn.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by Christian »

The new line of Miraphone tubas (it is called BBb-Tuba Hagen Modell 495 (4/4); 496 (5/4) and 497 (6/4)) follow the ideas to have a series of Tubas with nearly the same design. Miraphone had the same thoughts with the BBb and CC Tubas 184, 185, 186, 188.
The basis for “Hagen” design was an old Miraphone BBb-Tuba from the 1950´. As these tubas were built very tall we have to redesign the height. The new look is the result of them.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by bisontuba »

Christian wrote:The new line of Miraphone tubas (it is called BBb-Tuba Hagen Modell 495 (4/4); 496 (5/4) and 497 (6/4)) follow the ideas to have a series of Tubas with nearly the same design. Miraphone had the same thoughts with the BBb and CC Tubas 184, 185, 186, 188.
The basis for “Hagen” design was an old Miraphone BBb-Tuba from the 1950´. As these tubas were built very tall we have to redesign the height. The new look is the result of them.
Great post-thank you!
Might there be a set of Hagen's in the future that are in CC?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by J.c. Sherman »

Christian wrote:The new line of Miraphone tubas (it is called BBb-Tuba Hagen Modell 495 (4/4); 496 (5/4) and 497 (6/4)) follow the ideas to have a series of Tubas with nearly the same design. Miraphone had the same thoughts with the BBb and CC Tubas 184, 185, 186, 188.
The basis for “Hagen” design was an old Miraphone BBb-Tuba from the 1950´. As these tubas were built very tall we have to redesign the height. The new look is the result of them.
There's one of those old 90s (complete with clockworks) here in the Cleveland area. AMAZING horn, but getting past its prime.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by Lamminator »

I loved it when I played it at Frankfurt last year. Really easy to play and free blowing lower register. I have heard some comments that the tone is not dark enough but I didn't really notice. My main Instrument is E flat so not a specialist when it comes to the big ones. Having said that it I had the money would opt for the 5/4 model as I think it's great value. Going to Frankfurt in April again so plan to try a few more out this time round. :D
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by Billy M. »

Might be nice to see if they could make the 5/4 or 6/4 in CC :P :twisted:
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by EdFirth »

Since nobody has made this observation I'll throw something on the fire.I have played two Cerveny's that had a very similar bugle.One belonged to a Chicago fireman and the other belonged to Bruce Butler who was the tuba player prior to Neal Tidwell in the New Orleans Symphony. They both had that way high branch that almost goes to the top of the bell. They were both "Kaiser" .835 bore horns. Mark Finlay has observed that Mirafone based their 186 on a Cerveny and I find it pretty undeniable. Not to say that Mirafone is copying anything directly, just that this bugle has been around for a long time. I don't have a foto handy but if you type in The Last Straws on YouTube the album cover may come up. They were both, despite being quite old, very nice horns that made huge sounds.Ed
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by EdFirth »

Wow Doc way to go! I have that album but spent quite awhile looking for it with no success. That is the exact picture I was referring to. As you might notice Bruce isn't wearing the same costume as the others. I think they just had him play the album and pose for the picture. Sidenote, the Chicago Symphony offered Bruce the string bass 2nd tuba position. He told me when but I don't remember.But that they felt that he could hold his own with the basses and keep up with Jake is pretty cool and impressive. He left the New Orleans Symphony to become a dentist I heard him play Barnum and he blew the hell out of it. And a wonderful guy too. Thanks for finding the picture. Ed
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by bisontuba »

Used 496 at Dillons..under $7300...FYI...
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by WagnerRing »

Has anyone seen a 5 valve version of the Miraphone Hagen 496 or 497? I've read a few comments about the option to add a 5th valve on the 496 and 497, but there has been very little detail. Would like to hear from anyone who has played a 5 valve version of either of these horns. Thanks.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by pjv »

Miraphone doesn't offer 5 valved Hagen's. I've asked.
You'll have to be happy with either a 191 or a Siegfried.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by bort »

Interesting. Seems like there's enough room for it, but what do I know!

My understanding, though, has always been that Miraphone can do pretty much whatever you want, but it'll cost you. Perhaps you just have to ask REALLY nice now?

Roger Lewis would know, for sure.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by pjv »

Need a 5th valve?
I guess that's up to there player. Personally I find it sucks to play a BBb tuba with 4 valves.

Let's take the key of G for example. I'll need the 4th valve pulled out quite a bit for B, but pushed in for C.
Ok, I could pull my 3rd out and play the C 1&3, but then my F# will be too low.
Ok, I could pull my second way out for B (if it'll go out that far) but I'll need it pushed in for E&A.

So if any of these notes succeed each other in a relatively quick passage I have to work like a mad man to get it to work. We're not talking about fine tuning but rather large tuning differences heard even by the audience (oooooo).

I'd rather take my chances with a 5th valve. Just for that silly B and if I'm lucky that pesky low E might also tune in a pinch.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by Kirley »

Wouldn’t you set the 4th for in tune B and then use 1&3 for C with a pull on the first slide?
Or is there not enough length on the first slide?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by pjv »

Depends on the tuba. But this is still a very long pull, and you'd have to shorten that up for G&D.

Again, not ideal for quick passages on most BBb's.

Even the tuning difference between G and D tends to be more extreme then is comfortable, but it's usually doable (sometimes using the 3rd in stead of 1&2).

But when the tuning difference is really spread out I prefer a 5th over push me-pull you
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