tuning

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Radar
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Re: tuning

Post by Radar »

bigboymusic wrote:I have been very lucky with my bone sections over the years...

There was a set of concerts that I played with a bass boner that had a tuner on his stand the whole time.... That was HORRIBLE..... He 'knew' he was in tune because he watched the dial....

Kill me now...
We have a trumpet in one of the bands I'm in that has a tuner clipped to his bell all the time, he often sounds out of tune even though his tuner tells him he's right on. When I practice Bass Trombone at home I use a snark Tuner on the bell to double check and reinforce where the slide positions are for the various partials, on the open Bb horn, the F horn, and in my case the (Eb horn) yes I'm still using an old dependent Yamaha (I have trigger finger in my left hand, and need the split thumb set up, the bottom level doesn't work for me). Sitting in a Band on either Tuba or Bass trombone I don't think about intonation I just listen and adjust as required. I do find that practice with the tuner at home gets me closer to where I should be in a band setting sooner.
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windshieldbug
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Re: tuning

Post by windshieldbug »

bloke wrote:Just about the easiest thing to do, it seems, is to "play sharp"

"better than playing out of tune" said by a lot of string players seemingly everywhere... :D
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paulver

Re: tuning

Post by paulver »

In the past, I'd played so much piano that I was able to correctly name almost every pitch that someone played. I could even walk down a hallway and name the pitches from quite a distance, then open the door of the room that the sound was coming from, and tell the person what key they were in, and also let them know which incorrect pitches they played.

As a band director, I could pretty much do the same thing, but I wasn't always quite as accurate...... Too many variables in players. In fact, I was able to tell who was playing/practicing in the band room,(while I was outside of the band room, and at the other end of the hall of the school).

Used to drive the choral director nuts when I'd suddenly open her door, stick my head in, tell her what key she was playing/rehearsing in, name the incorrect pitch she was playing/teaching, then sing the correct one for her and the choir, shut the door and disappear!!!! All in good fun!

So.... obviously, yes, identifying pitches can be learned. I've never had perfect pitch, but if one listens enough, one can easily identify pitches via aural cues from each pitch on a wide variety of instruments.

Also.... hearing with you eyes and seeing with your ears..... good ways to identify itches. Most decent musicians do this automatically after a period of time.
PMeuph
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Re: tuning

Post by PMeuph »

Ken Crawford wrote:Tuning is innate. If you have to discuss the act of tuning with those playing around you things aren't going to be in tune. The most out of tune groups spend the most time tuning.
I agree with what you're going for, but I'll disagree that it's innate (Especially the definition of innate meaning a skill that your born with ). For one, none of the college groups I played with would have been in tune if a teacher hadn't stopped us and made us realize that we were out of tune and explained to us how to tune a chord.

But you're right in groups in which the conductor spends time explaining how to tune, if the individual musicians doesn't hear it, or don't realize that their bass clarinet has some sharp pitches, or that sometimes you have to lower or raise a note depending on which place you hold in the chord and that ideal way to do this is do learn to do it naturally (as opposed to intellectually) no amount of lecturing will get the group to play in tune....
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windshieldbug
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Re: tuning

Post by windshieldbug »

bloke wrote:I tend to believe that the MOST in-tune performances are careful and attention-to-detail performance, and not "I've got this" performances.

8)
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
PMeuph
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Re: tuning

Post by PMeuph »

bloke wrote:not to discount your views, but - very candidly...

When my OWN state of mind - regarding tuning - begins to become: "I've got this...I can hear what's in tune...Tuning has become second-nature to me..." THAT's when I REALLY start getting out-of-control...i.e. I catch myself wandering - not only past the ditches, but - out into the pasture.

I tend to believe that the MOST in-tune performances are careful and attention-to-detail performance, and not "I've got this" performances.
Now that I re-read what I wrote, I see what you mean and how what I meant to convey could be misconstrued. I haven't "phoned it in" or played with a "I've got this attitude" in a really long time.
I really started working on tuning after I graduated college. I sat down with drones daily with all three instruments (Tuba, trombone, euph) and I stopped on every single note. I played rochut while trying to adjust each pitch. I did scales, flex, articulation etc trying to make sure that I could hear what was in tune and what wasn't. What I meant by intellectual vs natural was more along the lines stopping on each note and thinking exactly where it is. Instead of just listening and letting the instincts I developed kick in. I may be out to lunch tuning wise, but that's not a comment I often get, in fact I usually get praised for my ability to blend with differing families or how it's easy to play with me. I tend to lip a lot on the euph as many instruments we're playing with (Bsn, Bass clar, Ten sax, tbone) tend to be out of tune, especially in the amateur context.

Most of the time, I play with different people, or with decent amateur groups. Sometimes, I just try to lock in to someone and play what they're the same pitches playing. For example, I played a parade with a really good bass trombone player two weeks ago. I just listened to him and tried to match all his pitches/ articulations/ and timing as best as I could. I didn't question if we were globally in tune to the clarinets, or if I was raising thirds (I was paying tuba so equal temperament is the way to go), I just listened and matched. Even in relation to equal temperament, there are maybe pitches we could have been out by 15 cents, but if we're in tune, then it sounds way better than if we were both 15 cents apart. (The rest of the band isn't perfect)

Dissonance and intonation quirks sound worst the closer they are. If the trombonists is 15 cents sharp (on a unisson pitch), it'll sound worst than if it was 15 cent sharp 1 octaves above.
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sirtar
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Re: tuning

Post by sirtar »

My first teacher taught a very simple method in tuning. That teacher was Earl Hoffmann, bass trombone player in the NBC orchestra and San Antonio symphony. ( yes, somewhere in the last century) Every lesson we start with sing the scale, buzz the scale, and play the scale. Then he would take his trombone and we would match pitches. His favorite saying was always adjust. We did not have portable tuners and metronomes had keys that were used to wind them up.

i teach solfedge to all my students, teach as I was taught without the tuning machine. They sing and finger the pitch and learn to play as they sing. When I tell the student to sing through the horn..... Some of them really do.

Just so you know Some have better voices than others.

I have played in many groups where the pitch rises and falls within a measure. Sometimes within several beats of a measure. I have played in orchestras where we can start at 440ish and somehow end up at 442 or more and then back to 440ish. Staring at a tuner does not mean you are playing in tune with tthe ensemble. I still hear pop Hoffmann say, don't just sit and keep playing, adjust to what you hear.
MikeMason
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Re: tuning

Post by MikeMason »

Yes,but,as an ensemble member who primarily plays roots of chords, don’t you feel some responsibility to hold the ensemble at 440(Or whatever yours tunes to), at least to some degree?
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MikeMason
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Re: tuning

Post by MikeMason »

I’m also,referring to quintet and various church gig ensembles. Organ/piano taken into account, I make an attempt to hold close to pitch when possible. Ymmv. Of corse I don’t let intonation beats occur, but if players are listening down to the tuba to place their notes, I feel obliged to give them a consistent foundation.
Pensacola Symphony
Troy University-adjunct tuba instructor
Yamaha yfb621 with 16’’ bell,with blokepiece symphony
Eastman 6/4 with blokepiece symphony/profundo
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