Wessex Mahler vs Mack 410

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thevillagetuba
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Wessex Mahler vs Mack 410

Post by thevillagetuba »

Has anyone had any time with one of the newer Wessex Mahlers with the 16.75" bells and that of the regular miraclones with the 17.75" bells (those sold by MackBrass, Schiller, etc)?

I am quite familiar with the 17.75" bell models and have never been fully happy with the sound I get from them, though I have always enjoyed the smaller-belled Miraphones more than the larger ones. I am hoping that it will be the case here, as well. Anyone got any info/experience? This might make a great horn for me to teach with in my studio as I would like to avoid having nicer horns damaged by students' lapse in judgment.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Wessex Mahler vs Mack 410

Post by thevillagetuba »

bloke wrote:Over the years, Miraphone 186 tubas were sold with different mouthpipe tapers, with/without bell kranz, different sheet metal gauges, different spring wire gauge, different weights of paddles, etc.

Those things have an effect on the player's general tactile (the word, "tactile", here, referring to all sorts of types of "feel", and not just "fingers") experience.

I have to work very hard to separate my tactile experiences (listed in the first sentence, above) from how I'm perceiving sound, and different distances of the bell opening from my ears (tall/medium/piggy, etc.) - as well as how much the bell opening is sheltered from my ears by bell "pancake", taint my own aural perceptions.

I have a really fine (rare) early '60's 5-valve 186 C tuba here. A couple of months ago, someone showed up with a Jinbao ("Schiller", or perhaps someone's else laser engraving). I certainly didn't like the overall "tactile" (as defined above) experience with the Jinbao, but - listening absolutely as objectively as I possibly could to myself playing "tuba A" and "tuba B", I really believe they SOUNDED just about the SAME. I know this is not a popular conclusion, but I'm not sure how many people who post a hypothesis in opposition to this one actually had two tubas of such differing provenance (i.e. viewed by many as "sublime vs. ridiculous") side-by-side.
Thank you. This is along the lines of what I've been wondering as the time between me playing a Miraphone and a miraclone were many years apart and doesn't really allow for a valuable comparison on my end. What I really didn't like was that the sound of the miraclones I have played seemed to be less "focused" and more "fluffy" (probably not the best descriptors) than I remember the Miraphone (no idea the model or vintsge, but the bell was definitely smaller) having. If your 186 and the miraclone sounded that similar than it might just be my memory that is faulty.
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Re: Wessex Mahler vs Mack 410

Post by thevillagetuba »

bloke wrote:Your memory may not be faulty, and I'm not trying to present myself as either "more sensitive" nor as "less subjective"...

...but - with quite a few very hastily-assembled and just-good-enough-to-be-labeled-as-instruments floating around out there, I've been working really hard to discipline myself to separate the "feel" of a tuba from the "sound" of a tuba...and that goes for comparing first-world to first-world built instruments as well.

When I first became aware that less exquisitely-built tubas can actually sound as-good-or-better-than exquisitely-well-built tubas was over thirty-five years ago, when a friend-of-an-acquaintance brought my Communist East German-made tuba to me from Europe (their profit from which financed their plane fare, to visit their ailing parents in the USA). Though the sound/intonation was/is amazing, the original linkage was of antiquated design (though most other tubas' was as well, at that time) and - even though the build quality of the rotors was/is amazing, the inside/outside fine-fit of the slide tubing (though alignment was/is excellent) was/is mediocre. The saving graces of the slide tubing is/are that [1] due to really user-friendly intonation, the slides really don't need to be moved on-the-fly and [2] they don't rely on "loose fit" (as do some notorious made-in-Asia tubas) in order to move.

bloke "sorry for digressing on a 'sales job' of a tuba that is not for sale :oops: "
No apologies necessary. With about a 30% or so difference in price I am trying to judge if it is worth getting the smaller bell for me. There isn't really an opportunity coming up where I can try both side by side in a good room to see and I might be making my purchase before i can make it to a convention to try and compare the two in the elephant room.

I've learned from owning some high-end equipment that even they can come with some imperfections and it really doesn't really cost any more to get the same thing fixed on a cheaper knockoff.
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Re: Wessex Mahler vs Mack 410

Post by Steve Marcus »

The Wessex “Mahler” has been replaced with the “Anton,” which has a 17.72” bell diameter:

https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/tu ... nton-tc491
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Re: Wessex Mahler vs Mack 410

Post by Cdub »

Wessex appears to still carry the Mahler

https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/tu ... hler-tc470" target="_blank

I thought the Anton was a CC HB copy (or close to it). Two different CC tubas.
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Re: Wessex Mahler vs Mack 410

Post by thevillagetuba »

Steve Marcus wrote:The Wessex “Mahler” has been replaced with the “Anton,” which has a 17.72” bell diameter:

https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/tu ... nton-tc491
So, Wessex does not currently offer a 4/4 CC tuba? This makes my decision easier by a lot, but it is a shame as I was really drawn to the idea of this horn with upgraded paddles/linkages and the smaller bell.

Are there any plans to put something similar to this back into the line?
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Re: Wessex Mahler vs Mack 410

Post by Steve Marcus »

the elephant wrote:Are you saying Wessex no longer carries the Mahler? Is this permanent?
Yes. Although the catalog lists the Anton as a 5/4, it could easily be perceived as a 4/4. A tuba closer to the appearance of a 5/4 would be the Wyvern, although it, too, could be labeled as a 4/4 tuba.
Post by Steve Marcus » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:56 am

We all know that the terms 4/4, 5/4, and 6/4 are abstractions, without strict standardization of dimensions within the industry.

Since Wessex builds the 4/4 Anton CC and the 6/4 Chicago-Presence and Chicago-York CC’s, it falls into line from a marketing point POV (if nothing else) to label the Wyvern a 5/4. Although these designations refer primarily to size of the tubas, the notion of the Wyvern being a 5/4 tuba is substantiated in Chris Olka’s video when he mentions the weight of the Wyvern.

Nevertheless, if Wessex is presented with a bid invitation that reads “4/4,” we might opt to name the Wyvern as such.
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Re: Wessex Mahler vs Mack 410

Post by Steve Marcus »

If one has a strong preference, it is still possible to special order a Mahler. 7-9 months delivery time.
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