Conn Professional 56J CC Tuba anyone?

[smurphius]

AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! CONN!!!!!!!!!! *GAGS*

[tubaaron]

A tremendous bell with a tremendous sound, but only at your ears. The 56J doesn't project as well if you're talkin about large concert halls and venues. I personally believe that the bell has gotta fit the body just nice...and the bell of the 56J is just a little too big for its own good i think. My $0.02.

[Billy M.]

I was going to buy the 54J which is only slightly smaller than the 56J in the bell but that fell through. I found that the 'perfect' mouthpiece for the job on that horn was the old model Warburton Canadian Brass Arnold Jacobs model mpc.

I felt that the projection was excellent with that particular mouthpiece. I mean we all know it's not a Hirsbrunner with their resonance but I got a great full, dark, and very projected sound.

As LV says, your mileage will vary.

[TexTuba]

These horns are good. If you want to hear what they can do just listen to Boston Brass and some stuff of the NY Phil. with Kyle Turner playing. I found that the PT-44 was a perfect fit with the horn and myself. But that's just me.








Ralph

[Will]

I just saw the Boston Brass perform a couple nights ago in South Bend. Great Concert! It looked like Andrew Hitz was using a heavy wall mouthpiece with his 52J.

Although I'm not a HUGE fan of these horns because of the compact size, I still think it's a quality horn with lots of potential. If I sold my primary quintet horn (right now an F) and my big CC to buy a more all-purpose horn, it would definitely be on my list of candidates.

[tubeast]

Uuummm... help out an ignorant foreign speaker here, please, who tries to understand unknown expressions using a general idea of related words.
I use the verb "to project" in the sense of a signal (sound, light, maybe even material) being emitted from an object with a defined direction. That might include the idea of a specific target that this signal is aimed at. Certain machines will project a movie to a cinema´s screen.
At least this would be an adaption of German terminology.
So what exactly do you mean by sound projection of a specific tuba ?
Is it the way you can hit a particular person in the audience on their left ear with a low Bb ?
Wouldn´t this contradict the idea of a tuba filling a room before the sound arrives at the audience, as opposed to, say, a trumpet ?

[Joe Baker]

Your understanding of the word in a general sense is correct. However, when specifically referring to the sound of an instrument, it refers to its ability to cut through the other sounds and be heard. Rick Denney, for example, speaks from time to time of when he tested his new F tuba. He was at a noisy tuba conference, and had a listener some distance away listen to him play on both his Yamaha F and his newly acquired (but old) B & S F. They sounded about the same volume to him; but to his listener the Yamaha's sound was lost in the noise of the room, while the B & S could be heard clearly. That quality is what is being referred to as "projecting".

Hope that helps!
_______________________________
Joe Baker, der Deutsch spricht nicht so gut wie Tubeast Englisch sprichst.

[Steve Inman]

Ja, richtig, Herr Baker. Here's a different attempt to say the same thing.

Some tubas fill up a room with sound which blends with the rest of the ensemble and provides a "feeling" that there must be a tuba in the group somewhere because the listener can hear a deep, full bass sound. But often such a tuba does not have a clear, distinct voice -- it simply blends with all of the other instruments. My understanding of this type of tuba is that it does NOT project well.

However, if the listener at the back of the music hall can hear the tuba's voice clearly and distinctly (we might say the sound "cuts through" the sound coming from the rest of the ensemble) then my understanding is that this tuba DOES project well.

So, like a laser, the ability to perceive the sound focused and clear at a distance would mean the tuba does project well.

HDH (hoffentlich das Hilft),

[tubeast]

Vielen Dank, Joe und Steve. Sie waren sehr freundlich und konnten sehr zur Klärung beitragen.
In that case I´d think this depends very much on the kinds of musical characters a tubist is able to represent on a particular instrument.
And I´d like to second those posters who referred to different mouthpieces. I´m having lots of fun these days trying my PT50+ on an F-Tuba in a beerfest situation as opposed to the 24AW I usually use on that horn.
I guess I´ll have to find somebody in the audience on Sunday willing and able (well, it´s a beerfest, after all) to comment on the difference.

[Joe Baker]

Bitte sehr, Tubeast. Tubenet ist eine sehr Gemütliche Versammlung.
_______________________
Joe Baker, whose German hasn't gotten much use the last 15 years or so.

[Steve Inman]

Vielen Dank, Joe und Steve. Sie waren sehr freundlich und konnten sehr zur Klärung beitragen.
In that case I´d think this depends very much on the kinds of musical characters a tubist is able to represent on a particular instrument.
And I´d like to second those posters who referred to different mouthpieces. I´m having lots of fun these days trying my PT50+ on an F-Tuba in a beerfest situation as opposed to the 24AW I usually use on that horn.
I guess I´ll have to find somebody in the audience on Sunday willing and able (well, it´s a beerfest, after all) to comment on the difference.

Bitte schoen, Hans. Sie haben rechts -- beide der Tubaspieler und die Tuba sind wichtig.
Aber das Mundstueck ist auch wichtig. Ich habe vor ein paar Jahren eine Yamaha YFB621 gespielt. Die ist ziemlich klein, aber mit ein groesser Mundstueck kann sie groesser scheinen. Leider koente ich nicht zum Bierfest kommen. Normalerwiese hoert man zum Bierfest, "Wieviel Bier kann Ihre Tuba enhalten?" Nicht, "Ihr Mundstueck ist sehr toll!"

Here are two tuba examples regarding projection -- my previous tuba, an older Miraphone 186, with the 16.5 inch bell, vs. my current tuba, the Conn 56J with a 20 inch bell. I suspect most players would vote for the Miraphone to be a better tuba for projecting, and the Conn 56J would be better for creating a "broader" or "foundation" tuba sound. I have always heard people speak about the Alexander tubas as being very good for projecting. Also the 3/4 size Rudy Meinl CC (model 435, I believe).

Tschuess,

Steve Inman
. . . who like Joe has about 15 years of German language mental rust to deal with . . . .

[tubeast]

Just finished that comparative beerfest-test drive of different horns and mouthpieces. That was all-terrain-playing including church service (Can You Feel The Love Tonight, excerpts from Schubert´s "Deutsche Messe", Pachelbel´s Canon) , marching to the tent, and two hours of extreme-polkaing (the good Bohemian stuff).
There´s just nothing to match the CC-horn in church. Talk about 32´ organ. Couldn´t do that on our BBbs.
Using the F horn in the tent, I chose the small MP (24AW) for polkas, ´cause it puts you closer to tenorhorn and baritone tonewise (the BBbs provide the "Ooomph" here). The PT50+ was better for "modern" stuff like "Tuxedo Junction" or "Spanish Eyes", where the tuba is supposed to do the elctric bass thing.

If you want to brush up your German, why don´t you join a German forum (no, don´t try the "Deutsches Tubaforum", they don´t communicate via internet) and post away.
There´s always lots to learn, and I sure picked up some English licks on Tubenet the past three months.

Hans "who thinks your German don´t need that much brushin´ and greasin´ at all" Reinhardt

[Steve Inman]

Phrases in Herr Reinhardt's last post:

Just finished that comparative beerfest-test drive,
That was all-terrain-playing,
two hours of extreme-polkaing (the good Bohemian stuff),
There´s just nothing to match the CC-horn in church,
Talk about 32´ organ,
the tuba is supposed to do the elctric bass thing
If you want to brush up your German,
post away,
There´s always lots to learn,

Hans "who thinks your German don´t need that much brushin´ and greasin´ at all" Reinhardt

WOW!!! That could have been a post by Rick or Joe!!!

Hans -- you've picked up more than just a little bit during the past 3 months on TubeNet! Can Sean send Hans an "Honarary American Linguist" certificate? If you can figure out our country's silly way of pronouncing the English language, then you'll never hear "you ain't from around here" should you come to visit us!

Cheers,

[Steve Inman]

Also -- thanks for the interesting beerfest post, and also for the German Forum suggestion.

Cheers,

[Bill Troiano]

I've been playing the 52J for several years now. I believe I have one of the better ones, as I've played several. I currently use the Alan Baer G&W mp with it. I feel that the mp adds focus to the sound without making it brighter. As others have said, it feels good on the face too. Could be coincidence, but a few members of the Atlantic Wind Symphony, that I play in on LI, remarked positively about my tone after our last concert. That's nice, but none of them ever said anything before. It could be the mouthpiece. I really have no idea. Maybe, I was just having a good day. Or, it could be that the Yankees were winning when I left my car to enter the concert hall. That doesn't happen too often these days. Ramble!

[TubaTodd]

Ok, I have owned a 56J since July of 2001. It has been a great horn. When I purchased the horn, I had the tremendous opportunity of trying about 7 52/56J's at Dillon Music. I am VERY pleased with the one that I purchased.

Over the years I have tried each of the following mouthpieces

Conn Helleberg
Schilke Helleberg II
Kellyberg
Dillon G5B
Dillon F2B
PT83
PT50
PT88 and PT88+

Having owned tubas previously that have larger bores it took a little getting used to HOW to play this tuba. What I have learned is that the VERY large (33.5 mm) PT88 mouthpiece works the best.

About Projection:

If my memory serves me correctly (I sound like chairman Kaga from Iron Chef), a colleague of mine told me about a masterclass hosted by David Fedderly. At the masterclass Mr. Fedderly had a college tubist play while measuring his volume with a machine. The tubist's sound seemed loud, but rather edgy. Mr. Fedderly had him cut back on his edge, by cutting back on air speed and stop forcing air through the horn. The result was a smoother, darker and more resonant sound. The machine measured his volume as being louder.

**I'm not completely sure that these events are accurate. This is just what I remember from our conversation.**

What I learned from this story is that projection is best acquainted with resonance. The 56J doesn't appear to project well when you force air through it. The 56J projects well when played with proper air support, a strong embrouchure and a focus on resonance.

[Steve Marcus]

I just saw the Boston Brass perform a couple nights ago in South Bend. Great Concert! It looked like Andrew Hitz was using a heavy wall mouthpiece with his 52J.

Although I'm not a HUGE fan of these horns because of the compact size, I still think it's a quality horn with lots of potential.

Well, Andrew will be playing a Jupiter tuba now, as the Conn-Selmer sponsorship of Boston Brass has expired.

[ASTuba]

I just saw the Boston Brass perform a couple nights ago in South Bend. Great Concert! It looked like Andrew Hitz was using a heavy wall mouthpiece with his 52J.

Although I'm not a HUGE fan of these horns because of the compact size, I still think it's a quality horn with lots of potential.

Well, Andrew will be playing a Jupiter tuba now, as the Conn-Selmer sponsorship of Boston Brass has expired.

So, will he be switching to BBb? They don't make a CC, that I am aware of.

Maybe this will bring the mystery CC that they've "claimed" to be working on for years now....

[Alex Reeder]

Maybe it's just me, but I've found that projection has to do with more than just equipment. I don't want to be that guy, but nobody has mentioned technique yet.

I have found that using ample air, and finding the right balance of open throat and mouth but with a focused embouchure helps. I don't think about resonance at all- just try to get the best, most resonant sound you can, and the projection will come from this naturally.

It is true that different horns have different abilities for projection, but there is a lot a player can do to get to the fullest potential of any given horn.

[LItubakid220]

without reading the whole thread i dont know if this has already been said but i have a 56J and am using a laskey 30H..i highly recommend this..i cna project really well.