New tuba - old guy question

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jperry1466
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New tuba - old guy question

Post by jperry1466 »

I just purchased a Mack Brass CC TUu-410L tuba and received it today. Response is nice, most especially in the low register. Now I am a bit rusty, actually a whole lot rusty so this may just be a player problem. This horn seems to play well except for one note, the E above the bass clef staff. It should be open or better 1-2, but I cannot make that partial happen. Played open, it wants to go to D or F but not the E between. After experimenting, I got 2-3 to work, but it is very flat. It just doesn't seem to want to play that partial. So being just the one note, is this just 67-year-old me or possibly a tuba problem?

Some history: Many years ago, I owned a Meinl-Weston model 32 CC and got my masters in performance from U. of Kentucky in 1974 where I studied with Rex Conner. Then I taught high school band for almost 40 years. During that time, kids, house payments, etc. came along and I sold the Meinl. What little playing I did the last 30 years was done with the BBb's we used at school, but I was never as comfortable with the BBb as with the CC and always wanted to get another. Realizing I don't play like I did 44 years ago and knowing that the tuba parts in the community band I play in don't need that kind of range, I can chalk some of this up to rust. I know it's a crazy question and yes I've just had it for one day, but any and all opinions are welcome. Thanks in advance.
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by Matt Walters »

So....you are concerned about one note that you will most likely never use in the real world environment? Sorry, but many tubas costing up to 10 times as much as what you paid have a bad note in worse places.
If you are regularly playing music that requires you to play above middle C, you'll need to shop where you can play test many tubas and expect to pay more money.
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by Worth »

Toward the end, Meistersinger has a great high E, quite important to be spot on. I don't get around as much as many here, but that was my only high E ever, when I was fortunate to be playing with a decent community orchestra.
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by michael_glenn »

Several years ago I tried a friend’s 410 CC. I had the same issue with the high E. About a year ago I tried his horn again, and I didn’t have an issue at all with it. He hadn’t done any work or modifications to the horn. The only change was my own playing ability.
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by tofu »

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Last edited by tofu on Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by Three Valves »

“Hey Tom, one note out of 36 is broken, can you fix it??”

:tuba:
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by jperry1466 »

Thanks, guys, for all the responses. It was fun reading all of them. Fortunately, I have the ability to laugh at myself, so the humorous answers were fun, too. After my 2nd whole day of owning this tuba, I have really fallen for it. It plays well and plays in tune with the usual CC tendencies (yes, I play the first valve slide like a trombone player). Nice that it's beginning to come back to me, though I realize I will never play like I did at 23 again. This horn plays better in the low register than my Meinl did but not quite as easily in the higher register. In fact, it played more like the old Miraphones (back pressure) than the Meinl, but that horn is long gone.

To answer your questions, no I will never need the high E in the real world unless I go on the recital circuit (at 67?). I did finally find a combination that "sort of" worked, 4th valve with the 4th slide pulled about halfway. Yes, I tried 4 different mouthpieces, all with the same result, if not worse. I wish I had access to other CC instruments to compare, but this is band country (Texas) and not orchestra country. Yes, “Hey Tom, one note out of 36 is broken, can you fix it??” does put things in perspective.

I had one of my private students who is an all-state player come over and play it. He is a BBb player but wants a CC for college, and he had the same problem with the E. But I am not sending this horn back for one note since the other 35 play so well. The chops just have to be rebuilt after 33 years of teaching band and 12 years of retirement, a kidney transplant, knee replacement and colon surgery (I think I have more replacement parts than originals now), but I am really having fun with this. Tofu, thanks for the validation and advice; by the way, although Rex Conner could play them all, he preferred the BBb (played a Meinl Weston model 30) and only a few of our 16 tuba majors played CC. I am thinking it will only get better, and this is way more than enough horn for my community band, church, and brass quintet work. Thanks again to all. There is no brotherhood like us tubists. :tuba:
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by jperry1466 »

If anyone is curious, here is the reply I received from Tom at Mack Brass. It validates what several of you said:

"The only other time i had someone have an issue with the open E above the staff was when the tuba player who had retired from the Vancouver symphony called about it. He was in a similar situation, had not played in over 3 years but that note did come back. I took 6 years years off myself once and endurance was my biggest issue. it will take time so i would just be a little patient. "

Maybe I was being just the tiniest bit impatient after a 40 year layoff.
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by Three Valves »

Did he make you a Mack Brass Artiste??

:tuba:
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by jperry1466 »

Uh, no. Maybe a Mack Brass Artifact. :lol:
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by MaryAnn »

Yeah my comment, late of course, would be does any player currently up to snuff have insurmountable problems with that note? I'm not as competent on tuba as I am on horn, and I can make any horn go whether it wants to or not, even now in my dotage (older than you and poor health to boot.) So....patience, my friend, and it will come. Just remember to blow, and keep that sense of humor that works so well for you.
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by jperry1466 »

Thanks, Maryann and Bloke. Good comments. I know I just need time and practice. I have had this horn all of 4 days now after a 40 layoff from CC. I taught and played the BBb horns all these years of band directing, but the flexibility and range were never there like they are on CC.

I did find a way to make the note speak - 4th valve with a slight pull on the 4th slide, so if I ever really have to play that note in the real world, I can. I have tried 5 mouthpieces and found one that works best (out of my collection) for this instrument, and the horn plays so well. It seems to have a better low range than my old Meinl Weston, and perhaps a little more struggle with the upper range, but it is way to early to tell. Also, where my lips used to be quite supple, they feel like lumber trying to vibrate now. Maybe another 40 years of daily practice will reverse this process. :lol:
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by jperry1466 »

Yes, everyone would probably be highly entertained by a recording of a bunch of cracked notes. :lol:

The chops are starting to come back, although 67-year-old lips seem to be a bit stiffer than 22-year-old lips. I played something tonight that called for the high E, and it came out nicely played 4th valve. I still cannot duplicate it played either open or 1-2, interestingly enough.

The upper range above the staff still needs a lot of work, but I was pleasantly surprised at my progress after the 40 year layoff. In other news, now that I have my own horn and am practicing again, my non-musician wife of 48 years seems to roll her eyes a lot. :roll:
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by jperry1466 »

You shouldn't be scared after hearing some of the crap I've posted. :shock:

No one is required to post anything, but tuba audio is like crack for a few of us addicts around here. Post when you are comfortable, or not at all. Just don't give up playing and practicing.
Thanks, Doc.
The Mrs. has been putting up with my practicing, teaching private lessons in the house, etc. for 48 years now. She has beennothing but supportive of this new horn. I did good marrying that farmer's daughter. I have every intention of keeping up my practice; right now it is about 2 hours a day, and I got a good tip from an old college friend. When I get comfortable, I will post some audio. Maybe I'll cheat and post my stuff from 44 years ago, which is now digitized. The before and after recordings may generate some laughs. I will try to find those audio posts you mentioned. Where can I find them?
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by Worth »

She has been nothing but supportive of this new horn.
As many of us can attest to, that's a fortunate situation to have. She and the horn both sound like keepers!
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by jperry1466 »

Thanks, Doc!
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by jperry1466 »

Doc wrote:
jperry1466 wrote:Thanks, Doc!
You should probably listen first before you thank me. :shock: :lol:
I added some Rudy files, btw.

Looking forward to hearing about your fun and progress!
I did listen, and I was impressed by the seemingly (to me) effortless performances. I am not ready to post yet (it's only been a week). Between the cracked notes in the upper register (lower and mid are getting better), the occasional reverting to BBb fingerings due to long years of school teaching, and the fact that I have to take off my bifocals to struggle to see the music better, I am still struggling. The sound and range are coming. Just have to cement the CC fingerings again. It's getting better by the day, though. I will go back and check the Rudy files.
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by jperry1466 »

Doc wrote:
I don't need bifocals for reading. I need glasses for distance, but I can no longer overcome the distance correction to read. So... I must remove the glasses. When reading music, the distance from me to the stand determines glasses on or off. I personally don't need any yet, but if need be, you can have glasses made specifically for reading music. .. there are lots of options. If this becomes necessary for you, take a stand and sheet of music to mimic the actual positioning, angles, and distance. There would be slight, but important differences between the guy who plays guitar stands up and reads and the tubist who sits and reads. That's a whole lot about nothing just to say that there are options out there when/if we need help.
That's good advice. I do have a local optometrist who will work with me on this. For now, I may go get some $3 Walmart full size reading glasses and see if that gives me what I need, then go see the Doc. The range is finally getting better. I switched to a Warburton TG25 mouthpiece, which is a little smaller cup than I like, but with my thin lips, it gives me the best compromise for now. The sound isn't as big as I like, but I get around the horn a lot easier. The high E still refuses to budge, but I have learned to play it comfortably with 4th valve. Just a quirk of this horn I guess. I'm practicing 2 hours a day and getting closer to being comfortable with recording but not there yet.
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by BrassedOn »

Doc wrote:you may need to simply spend time playing it to get acclimated to that tuba. Good luck, and keep us informed about your journey.
Ditto to Doc's comments. I've had euphs that were squirrelly on that partial, on Bb the open high D. But after a while, i could get it with 1 and 2 or 3 or just about any combination with 4. Probably back to the basics you mastered in the past, with some high buzzing and such will bring it in. But if it persists, it could just be bad luck with some node or sound wave hitting right at a joint or spit key. If you had a mouthpiece with a longer or shorter shank, that might be enough to move the node off the sour spot.
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Re: New tuba - old guy question

Post by Alex C »

IMHO, if you are "a whole lot rusty," the problem is probably behind the mouthpiece. Age makes things happen differently on the tuba as well, from personal experience. Give yourself time to knock the rust off without judging like you did in undergrad school.
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