"learning to play dixieland jazz": bloke's emailed response

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The Big Ben
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Re: "learning to play dixieland jazz": bloke's emailed respo

Post by The Big Ben »

Thanks, bloke. I have a couple of friends who play guitar. One of them can read music if he really, really tries but hasn't really done it for thirty years. The other guy is quite fluent on the piano and accordion and reads music well but has said that, for about half the tunes he knows, he has never seen a piece of paper in the time that he has been playing it. I struggle with playing a tuba accompaniment to join in the fun. They are encouraging and we flail away at it- mostly blues and 60s rock and roll. It's been my observation that many guitar players (from the owners of Sears, Roebuck hollow boxes to Martins and Gibsons) know more about how music is put together than I do. Point is, when these guys want to learn a new song, they listen to it a few times, pick and strum around on their guitars, listen to it again and try some more. (When Stevie Ray Vaughn hit the national scene, there was a lot of SRV going on at his house and lots of sad sounding picking until he kind of got the hang of it, He is a pretty good guitar player and has picked up some of SRV's licks and they get thrown in on other tunes also.)

You make a lot of sense and thank you for the post. I'm going to try it out.
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Re: "learning to play dixieland jazz": bloke's emailed respo

Post by Art Hovey »

You have nothing to apologize for. Your piece is well-written and correct on every point. I would only add that it's a skill that one can continue to develop and enjoy for a lifetime if you are lucky enough to have other folks to enjoy it with.
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Re: "learning to play dixieland jazz": bloke's emailed respo

Post by BrassedOn »

Unless you're a banjoist or pianist, Dixieland and Classic Jazz is a collective activity. Yes, playing with lots of recordings really, really helps. YouTube is a great resource. And start memorizing changes and get your head out of the printed page as fast as you can. BUT if you want to play Classic Jazz, you need to join others. Many-a-garage band have been formed from Craigslist ads, including Classic Jazz, funk groups, and jazz combos.

If needed, I could dig my files for a list of common tunes (to prioritize) given to me by an old time tuba player.

One very comprehensive book is the firehouse dixieland fake book (but all books miss something, and this one does not have "Stardust"). Search web for a pdf. All books have "bad" changes that someone will disagree with, so compare with Dixieland Player's Fun Book, Vintage Jazz Standards, and always always always check multiple recordings. When in doubt, defer to a great pianist, who dependably have a very good understanding of how the progressions progress. And listen.

Bass soloing? You don't need to be Howard Johnson or Rich Matteson or Allan Jaffe or Dave Gannett or Philip Frazier or Dave Bargeron or Michael Goddard or Joe Murphy or *sorry I missed your favorite* when you're starting out.

Many great (and appealing and satisfying to the listener) solos for a tubist can start off simple. Try playing the melody for the tuba solo (surprising for the audience that the tuba can accomplish even that). "Who's Sorry Now" would be a good starter tune. For the novice (and experienced player), melodies that are "open", that is they arpeggiate and have some space/rest (the intervals and the rests are the openings) and are rhythmic can get through to the audience more readily than something overly scalar or chromatic or dense. And the player can focus on feel and phrasing and time. You might hear older recordings of bass players playing what is really just an intricate bass line, maybe with more extreme ranges or articulation or slapping, as the solo, but basically using the vocabulary of bass lines. That'd work on tuba, and mostly I reserve that if someone tosses me a solo in a dance situation. Soon you can progress to playing an original melody line (create your own motif and riff on that through the changes), but model it on some tune. But remember rhythem and space are your friend. And don't freak if the piano or guitar drop out, very common to solo with only drums. Hence, KISS principle works. Also, cuz you took my earlier advice and joined a group, for a short "solo" the tuba can take the lead the last time through the bridge, like the bridge to Ain't Misbehavin' or If I had You. This breaks up the texture of the tune for the band, the tubist is playing melodies, and it is cohesive because it's part of the tune. You can build from this to become the next jazz tuba hero.
Last edited by BrassedOn on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "learning to play dixieland jazz": bloke's emailed respo

Post by BrassedOn »

BTW, while/if there's interest in the topic, what do we call this kind of music?

Looking historically, the word "Dixieland" comes from Original Dixieland Jass Band, the band not the music genre, linked to the region "Dixieland" around NOLA and greater LA. It's "jazz" for sure. Broadly the category "Early Jazz" to me sounds like somehow it's undeveloped, so I don't use it. "Trad" traditional players may go back to the earlier style in Classic Jazz thad had an improvised quality but was deeply arranged and not as much actual improvising. Think ODJB. "Hot Jazz" is much of what you'd hear form Louis Armstrong. If you call your band "So-and-so Hot Jazz", that's what people would expect. You'll sometimes hear "Swingin' Dixieland", which is later and cops some of the later Big Band style and tunes and swing with class jazz instrumentation and swagger. Swing era starts in the early 1930s. At a classic jazz fest, people want to swing and Lyndy dance, so the band plays more of a 30s/40s/50s swing style. Right now, my band is not playing anything past 1932, not to be purist or puritanical, albeit arbitrary, it's just that the era we're focused on. Body and Soul 1930 can sound "modren" but you'll find recordings where it's not played as a ballad. Georgia on My Mind and Stardust make the cut.

Moreover, all of this risks ignoring the earlier contributions of Blues and other music traditions stemming from the music slaves created on the plantation, with origins in African music, call and response and church hymns and polyrhythm, which combined with the very very important roots of Rag Time (Scott Joplin, who is black/African American) and brass bands (a lot of German/Civil War era march instruments, tonality, and structures). The call and response and rhythm style in some NOLA brass bands may recall and build on earlier traditions, from before jazz per se. I'm not sure what the trend is, but I think we know what we mean when we say "Dixieland" as this amalgamations of styles and/or this umbrella of distinct genres of early jazz. BUT, I'm mindful that "Dixieland" can have a charged meaning as the branding of music by white musicians at one point in the development of jazz. In the end, I go with "Classic Jazz" (which for some reason people don't ever mistake for BeBop although sometimes Swing or Straight Ahead), even tho I play a lot of "Hot Jazz", and if needed I clarify, "You know, like Dixieland". And we don't treat the music as some museum piece that is not altered or influenced by our contemporary sensibilities, which some Trad bands in an effort to preserve the integrity of classic 1911ish jazz may do. Another band I play with is decidedly "New Orleans Style Brass Band" and we've just a few tunes common amongst the two groups.

What does this mean for the aspiring jazz tubist? As you're learning the music, it can help to learn the history and traditions. It can inform your playing, selections, and how you communicate the music to your listeners.
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Re: "learning to play dixieland jazz": bloke's emailed respo

Post by David Richoux »

Very true about solos. Sometimes you just have to be satisfied with nailing a perfect 2 bar Break, but depending on how long a band has played together, the tuba may get a 12 or even 24 bar solo on a few songs, especially if a period recording had one.
The main thing is to support the front line and keep the rhythm section going at the right tempo (and key. And song.) Make big hints for key changes or going between sections. Watch the dancers if you can - if they are stumbling all over the floor you are probably doing something wrong.
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Re: "learning to play dixieland jazz": bloke's emailed respo

Post by Bill Troiano »

All very good and valid points here. I still wish I could get away from the music more. I know a lot of tunes, but still feel comfortable having my iPad Pro with me where I have around 800 tunes stored.

It's like most other things. The more you do it, the more comfortable you'll be with it. I've never really listened to many recordings of trad. jazz, although I know that's an excellent way to go. For my own skill development, I credit Arban's to the point where you can play around chord changes in a song using arpeggios and scale patterns without having to think much about it. Then, figure out how to lead to any note using a half step. After a while, try leading to a note via 2 half steps. Before you know it, you're moving chromatically. Listen to anyone you're playing with and try to pick up ideas in their solos.

That's basically all I've done to play this. I hate to make it too complicated.
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Re: "learning to play dixieland jazz": bloke's emailed respo

Post by roweenie »

Bloke's advice is solid and "on the money".

I'd add that knowledge of harmony, an understanding of chord progression/relationships and voice leading is a useful skill when improvising interesting bass lines.

Improvising is basically "on the spot" composition.

Good time (not "a good time", although having a good time does adds to the energy of the music) is crucial.
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