Replacing my 5/4 with a 3/4 or 4/4 on a budget

[tizzdizz]

Hi, I have been reading through the threads on here in my search, and decided to make a direct post to see what opinions I might glean.

I started playing again in a community band last year after about 15 years off. I have had this 1928 Buescher recording horn (4v BBb) for about 7 years. It took me that long to actually jump back into playing. Anyway, I love this old horn's deep sound, but it is an AIR HOG, and a monster for someone with a not-so-great back. Also, I have no case, and would need one custom made. Lastly, I noticed that there are some cracks around the receiver for the leadpipe.

Long story short, I live in Sacramento, CA, and went to Tim's Music to try some horns out. I'm looking for a BBb horn with 4 valves/rotors. They have 6 or 7 tubas, but really only 1 was in my price range of 2-3K. I happened to like it, but it's only a 3/4 and I'm worried about volume in my community band. The instrument is a John Packer JP179 with 4 front-action valves, and it goes for $2700. I was really impressed with how easily it blows and how not-tiny it sounds for how small it is.

I am very intrigued by Wessex, though, and also a bit curious about Schiller. I know these cheaper chinese brands come from the same factory, but have different tweaks. I also got the impression that Wessex has seen more upgrades, but I don't know for sure. I can't really try any of these horns, though, so I'm worried I might miss out on a great horn. But I would like to patronize my local shop - Tim's has been great to me since I started going there.

Anyway, I'm attaching a picture of the two horns side by side. I don't have the space to keep the old buescher, and need it to partially fund the new horn. Sorry for the wall of text. Also, I haven't had much luck finding used horns nearby that I can try.

So how does John Packer compare to other low-priced brands? Anyone in Northern California want to let me try out their horn?

Edit: I should add that I called the gentleman from Mack Brass, who suggested either the 200 or 210. He was very helpful, so those are also in the running.

Buescher and John Packer Tubas sm.jpg

[BrassedOn]

I think that is an adequate budget for a range of horns. It seems you're ready for new, but if okay with used, a lot of options. One question I have is, of the horns that were out of your price range, what did you like? There might be some cheaper option in that family of horn. I would guess that most horns in that range are piston, but I see the Tuba Exchange badged tuba with 4 rotary in the range. And the Mach 200 and 210 also.

BUT, you should really consider your main criteria for the right horn, "you". And as I age, I am very conscious of not only what works for me now, but what I can and want to haul around in the future, and the ensembles I want to play in. Around my area, only one of the 4 main community bands is really at a point of having auditions and thus those players are all playing traditional pro level 4/4 or 5/4 horns, mostly CC but also 1 BBb, like you'd see in a university tuba studio. Any one or two of the players could support a band of 60. In the other bands, the players are a combination of good hobbyists and semi pros, and those getting back in to shape and slowly sliding out of shape, recovering from illness or facing old age. In a more elder band (New Horizons), the 93 y/o tubist is playing on a Conn 20K sousaphone (two trips to the car), another is playing a 3/4 BBb because that is what he can carry (bigger horns at home that he might haul out with a stand for a concert), I sometimes join in for a concert to help out on a King 2341 (not at all lightweight 4/4). I can see some bands saying no to the sousa, and probably another player offering to loan a concert horn for concerts. In the other band I play in, a little higher level and little younger player, there's a Miraphone(clone) 186ish CC and BBb, and a Wessex 6/4 Grand, and a old, big 3 top action valve Yamadog, probably a leftover at the school he teaches. I would happily bring in a good 3/4 tuba over the later with no shame.

For me, if a 3/4 tuba made me happy and I sounded good in the low range were most of the concert band literature sits, I would not hesitate to bring that to community band. I also might consider someday a 4v Eb tuba if that was the one that I could do my best on. I always figure, somebody in the band will want to bring in some larger horn and play the lower part on divisi.

The one thing I would really check before pulling the trigger on the JP 179 or Eastman 626 is whether it fits your body. Watching this demo, I see that the valves position and angle might not work for me, I worry my wrist would be more bent as this guy, and the height and angle of the lead pipe. If you go back to that shop, bring a friend to video so you can monitor your position while playing. I think also that I would angle the horn out a bit more to put the lead pipe in my sweet spot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6kHMhFUPCU" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

But as you listed, the Mack 210 4 rotary, big difference in the horn! And the player! The 210 vs 200 I would think is player preference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAf3fqbRFrk" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

[tizzdizz]

Thank you BrassedOn for your detailed response. You make some good points. I felt quite comfortable playing the JP179, and you're right about thinking long-term. I'm 37, but hopefully have many years of tuba playing ahead of me. I think at this point I'm really torn between the smaller JP179 and the larger Mack210. Although it's not a SMALL tuba, it looks much less unweildy, and I like the sound a lot. I've watched both of those videos several times.

Bloke - you make a good point. The Buescher was just serviced last year, and they sonically cleaned it, repaired a solder joint, and serviced the valves. I did not have them plated, and the valve guides are pretty clunky with lots of play. They still move very smoothly, but I wasn't willing to dump even more money into it at that point. I received your PM - thanks for that. I am very curious about the Buescher conversion you described. Do you have a thread about it, or pictures? I've never had much luck finding anything out about this horn - I don't even have a model number. Just know that it's a TrueTone, low pitch from circa 1928.

[tizzdizz]

@bloke - very good information. I really appreciate it. I will check the valves as you described when I get home. The JP horn does sound like a pretty good option.

I am also curious about the Wessex Dragon, as it seems to be a good size and price point. But I can't find any review, video or other info besides what's on the Wessex website. Apparently it's new this year.
https://wessex-tubas.com/products/bbb-4 ... agon-tb484" target="_blank