Concert Tubas Used for Marching

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Donn
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by Donn »

You can add the Italian bersaglieri military bands. Top valves. The music isn't very complex, and they don't really march - they sprint. But they do it in synch and in formation, so I think it counts. Other Italian marching bands also use top valve tubas. Portuguese bands use whatever they can get their hands on, top or front valves - and the tubas march in front.
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by k001k47 »

bloke wrote:
rather than than resting them on a left shoulder MUSCLE (which is typically sore for three or four days, and then becomes strong).
One of my High School section mates called it "da juice bone"

. . . and if you're assuming he wasn't particularly bright, he was the valedictorian of his class
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by k001k47 »

bloke wrote:
k001k47 wrote:
bloke wrote:
rather than than resting them on a left shoulder MUSCLE (which is typically sore for three or four days, and then becomes strong).
One of my High School section mates called it "da juice bone"

. . . and if you're assuming he wasn't particularly bright, he was the valedictorian of his class
TOPIC: "da juice bone"
What did he mean by that. Simply, I'm not "getting" it...?? (P.M. or post the explanation, please.)
beats me . . . it's just what he called that group of muscles and tendons. Three of the top 10 students in that class were tubaists, now that I'm thinking about it.
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by konna4 »

I've marched with my B&H Imperial a couple of times without straps or support. Not impossible on a short gig, but I really prefer a sousaphone.

I've never played an actual marching tuba or a convertible. Do they have a specially shaped outer pipe, or how does one hold a marching tuba still? I tried holding a concert tuba on my shoulder and it felt very impractical and unstable.

Lars Trawen wrote:In Europe a majority of marching bands use concert tubas.
In Germany also Kaiser tubas.
Myself I've never used anything else.
Other used basses are helicons and sousaphones but these are not common.
I also have a feeling that Central European bands quite often use concert tubas. Helicons are sometimes seen.

Is sousaphone too American for them? :P
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

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bloke wrote:
KiltieTuba wrote:Oh look... we're off-topic discussing sousaphones in relation to a topic on concert tubas in a marching setting... in six posts...
not really. The problem is skimming. You just missed this when doing so:

by bloke » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:20 am
bloke, on Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:20 am wrote:Here's the thing:
Sousaphones were designed as ~concert~ instruments.
You sort of neglected the fact that the sousaphones that were designed as ~concert~ instruments pretty quickly morphed into more bell forward (marching) than the helicon from which they sprang.

Concert (L); Marching (R)
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by umlaut_kraut »

A friend of mine who is intensely familiar with the history of the U.S. Marine Band told me years and years ago that Sousa had the Sousaphone in its original form (bell pointing up) built because he felt that the helicons were too loud. Maybe you need to take this bit of information with a grain of salt, though.

As for marching with concert tubas: there are a few events such as the Oktoberfest parade in Munich for which wearing traditional garb is very important. Sousaphones, front-bell tubas and the like would probably be considered to be out of line with that dress code, and I guess for many musicians it's like wearing your sunday best to have a nice, shiny instrument.
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by Donn »

Looks to me like Russian and Serbian military bands may march with "concert" tubas, though in some cases I see sousaphones in the Russian bands.
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by LoyalTubist »

Back in the early '80s I was a tuba player with the 298th US Army Band in Berlin, Germany. Berlin, being mostly Protestant, doesn't have a tradition of Fasching (the German version of Mardi Gras) so we were invited by the 11th Cavalry in Fulda (whose band had deactivated some years before I entered the service) to do some ceremonies for them and play for their Fasching parade. The first year we went, we took our white fiberglass sousaphones (it's what we had then) and the commanding officer of the 11th Cav said it looked like we were playing toilets. So the next year we took our upright tubas (Miraphone, Alexander, Meinl-Weston, and Conn). The C.O.'s comment about our new appearance: "Sure looks better without the tubas!"
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by Leland »

konna4 wrote:I've marched with my B&H Imperial a couple of times without straps or support. Not impossible on a short gig, but I really prefer a sousaphone.

I've never played an actual marching tuba or a convertible. Do they have a specially shaped outer pipe, or how does one hold a marching tuba still? I tried holding a concert tuba on my shoulder and it felt very impractical and unstable.
I wouldn't want to carry a regular concert tuba in front of me for very long, even with a strap. Same as marching percussion -- all the weight out in front is a real stressor on my back.

Marching tubas/contras are designed differently, yes, with hand placement and overall balance being very different from concert tubas held horizontally. Convertible models come in two basic flavors: upright-piston tubas that only need a different leadpipe swapped in (such as Yamaha YBB-201M), and front-action tubas where the entire valve section flips around (I think Kanstul still makes them). Non-convertible models have their valve section and leadpipe arranged for easy reach and decent front-to-back weight balance.
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by Donn »

Leland wrote: I wouldn't want to carry a regular concert tuba in front of me for very long, even with a strap. Same as marching percussion -- all the weight out in front is a real stressor on my back.
Yes - thinking about the countries where I noticed they do that, it occurs to me that they also have stronger accordion playing traditions, so it's possible that many individuals in these areas develop more robust backs. (A fairly typical accordion, with several reed sets, might weigh 20 to 25 lbs.) Perhaps tuba players there are drawn from the ranks of these sturdy individuals.
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by umlaut_kraut »

Donn wrote:
Leland wrote: Perhaps tuba players there are drawn from the ranks of these sturdy individuals.
Probably not. :)

It's not that hard once you get used to it. Just lean back a bit to keep the center of gravity, well, centered. If you're still having problems, you can get one of those harness type things. I'm an avid cyclist which probably helps, too. But then again, I only do this once or twice a year.

This is me at a thanksgiving parade last year: Image

Only with a simple shoulder strap. Reading music while marching sucks, though.
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Re: Concert Tubas Used for Marching

Post by bigtubby »

bloke wrote:I'm not sure that any of us has the whole story.
...
...
...
Going by Dave Detwiler's research and the seemingly well accepted quotes from Sousa about bell-up helicons and the response from J.W. Pepper and others.

And Ian, something beyond JSU's 20J's (ouch the weight of those beastly Besson/Booseys):
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And/or:
https://yandex.ru/images/search?from=&c ... =imagelike
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