Biggest shortcoming of a 4 valve Miraphone 186 BBb

[MartyNeilan]

The biggest shortcoming of a 4 valve Miraphone 186 BBb tuba is...
the fourth valve slide.
On most BBb 186's I have ever played, the 4th slide needed to be pulled about an inch or so to get low C in tune. There just isn't enough pull left to get a solid B natural in tune without having to lip down at least a little, sometimes a lot. The 2nd valve slide can't be pulled while playing, and even if a trigger was rigged up it would probably get in the way of the right hand when thrown out.
I would love to be able to stand on a low B without having to think about pulling the pitch down so much.
Disclaimer: half of the students using a 186 probably play low B 123, and the other half actually using 24 probably aren't worried about how sharp it is.

[Dan Schultz]

I've seen Miraphone 4th valve slides in two configurations. The most common is just a simply slide. Some were also produced with a 4th slide that is shaped like a 'W' resulting in a slide that's quite a bit longer. The alternate slide is fairly easy to build using three 2nd valve crooks.

[iiipopes]

I do agree on a BBb 186:

1) The 4th valve slide is barely long enough, but it is if you have a good relaxed embouchure to center the pitch;
2) Removing the 4th valve slide to clean/re-grease/etc., is a chore due to the tight spacing; not a major chore, but a chore nonetheless.

But I would say the biggest shortcoming of a 186 is the flat 5th partials. We have all used alternate fingerings for so many decades it is kind of like, "The Emperor's New Clothes," that we don't think about it anymore. But when I put the Besson bell on my Bessophone, and lengthened the main tuning slide to compensate the shorter bell stack (thereby adding cylindrical tubing that expands the intonation of the partials), it was a revelation to play the 5th partials with little or no compensation from either lipping, pushing slides, or alternate fingerings.

If Miraphone would tighten the throat of their current "vanilla tone" 17 3/4 inch bells, shorten the bell stack, and lengthen the cylindrical main tuning slide circuit to bring the tuba back down to pitch; maybe even including re-engineering of the infamous "dog-leg" going from the valve block to the main tuning slide, the tuba would be improved immensely. (Saying nothing of bringing back the smaller initial diameter but with more taper lead pipe from the "old generation" to get a better tone and response, and less "barking" out of the tuba).

[joh_tuba]

I do agree on a BBb 186:
If Miraphone would tighten the throat of their current "vanilla tone" 17 3/4 inch bells, shorten the bell stack, and lengthen the cylindrical main tuning slide circuit to bring the tuba back down to pitch; maybe even including re-engineering of the infamous "dog-leg" going from the valve block to the main tuning slide, the tuba would be improved immensely. (Saying nothing of bringing back the smaller initial diameter but with more taper lead pipe from the "old generation" to get a better tone and response, and less "barking" out of the tuba).

I would love to play test one of these theoretically magical horns. If it worked I bet it would sell reasonably well.

[toobagrowl]

Yeah, I've talked about this before on here.
I've noticed on a couple vintage Mira 186 BBb tubas that the 4th slide circuit is fabricated too short -- you have to pull out the 4th slide all the way (roughly 3 inches) to get low C and low F reasonably well in tune. But then low 2+4 B and E are still a little sharp -- even with the 2nd slide out a bit. You have to pretty much 'lip' those notes down, especially low E. Still a lot better than playing those notes with only 3 valves, and if I remember correctly the M-W 25 BBb also has the same too-short 4th valve circuit issue.
Why don't Miraphone and Meinl-Weston just add a couple inches to their 4th slides on those tubas

[oedipoes]

The biggest shortcoming of every 4-valve BBb is a 5th valve imho ...
(I set my slides as a compromise and solve intonation tendencies with alternative fingerings like 523 in stead of 24, and slightly lipping up or down, I do not pull or push slides)

[iiipopes]

I do agree on a BBb 186:
If Miraphone would tighten the throat of their current "vanilla tone" 17 3/4 inch bells, shorten the bell stack, and lengthen the cylindrical main tuning slide circuit to bring the tuba back down to pitch; maybe even including re-engineering of the infamous "dog-leg" going from the valve block to the main tuning slide, the tuba would be improved immensely. (Saying nothing of bringing back the smaller initial diameter but with more taper lead pipe from the "old generation" to get a better tone and response, and less "barking" out of the tuba).

I would love to play test one of these theoretically magical horns. If it worked I bet it would sell reasonably well.

You are welcome to play my Bessophone, which is essentially what I described, any time!

[tofu]

.

[tubajazzo]

Hi friends, could anyone please post a pic of such longer shaped 4th valve tuning slide in a Bb186?

Gerd from Germany

[MartyNeilan]

Hi friends, could anyone please post a pic of such longer shaped 4th valve tuning slide in a Bb186?

Gerd from Germany

I found this in a recent For Sale posting:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/cth ... Gc=/?ref=1
(You will need to actually click the link, since PhotoBucket won't allow hot-linking images.

[toobagrowl]

I found this in a recent For Sale posting:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/cth ... Gc=/?ref=1
(You will need to actually click the link, since PhotoBucket won't allow hot-linking images.

Ha, so Mirafone DID address the too-short 4th slide with a longer one back in the day! Whaddayaknow Some (most?) of the vintage 186 BBb's could benefit from that longer, 'doubled over' 4th slide

[Tabor]

presto valved BBb 186 models ran the 4th like a CC instead of inside

[Tabor]

I don't have any part numbers, but I had this horn for quite a while. Check out the nickel silver inner and outer slides.

[tubajazzo]

Hi Marty, thanx for the link to the pic, now i can imagine how this works.