Refurbished King 2341

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greenbean
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by greenbean »

The sloppiness (and weirdness) of the eBay posting is strange, I will say, given the good reputation of Wichita Band. I have bought several woodwinds from them (back on the ol' days) and they were straight-shooters. Back then - and probably today - they specialized in woodwinds. So... I am willing to be somewhat forgiving of the employee who posted the tuba and their lack of expertise in low brass. They are not exactly trying to scam anyone, after all.
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bort
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by bort »

The original ad has been updated with more information -- photos of the tuba and the pricelist, with corrections and more details.

Time to put this to rest! :tuba:
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groth
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by groth »

bort wrote:The original ad has been updated with more information -- photos of the tuba and the pricelist, with corrections and more details.

Time to put this to rest! :tuba:
Yes, we're right back to square 1 again.
What we have learned is: A)This horn is a good value for $2850 (I guess if you're in the market for one) and
B)He's still promoting a price list that doesn't reflect the actual refurbished horn in question nor does anyone in the private market ever pay those numbers even for a "new" 2341. :roll:
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by toobagrowl »

Wichita Band has always sorta "hyped up" the MSRP of many horns the have for sale, while usually having a good/reasonable actual sale price for said horns. I just skip over their MSRP 'talk' and look at the actual sale price, and it is usually pretty good :!:

Ya know, the King 2341 (esp. the tall/detachable bell model from the 1980s-90s) is a very good tuba as is. But I think it could have been an awesome tuba had it been equipped with a larger .728" or .734" valveset bore, and a 5th rotor @ .750" or so. Just think about it :tuba:
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by tofu »

Most folks here wouldn't be fooled by the phony MSRP and many of us have the knowledge and experience to understand that there is an old 2341 and a new style 2341, to know that refurbished is not new and that "refurbished" can mean many things. We know that the most expensive part of the horn are the valves and that what gets passed off as refurbished often doesn't include a valve job. A shiny but old horn with poor valves is not usually a good investment. I think what bothers many of us in this thread is not that any of us are fooled by this ad, but for example maybe some single parent kid has been busting his butt working and saving his nickels to buy a tuba and mom scrimps and comes up with the difference and buys this thing and has it delivered. While we know that all tubas of the same brand don't play the same (especially refurbished ones) uninformed buyers might assume they are like buying a Mr. Coffee coffee maker and the one you buy from Best Buy will perform the same as the one you buy on Amazon. That's what bothers me about ad - it is misleading at best and some young uninformed buyer / parent may end up with something other than what they thought they were buying. And how many parents are going to know that to fix bad valves is not cheap and to do so means making that shiny horn a lot less shiny. I liked to think that maybe we help keep sellers honest so that the less informed don't get taken advantaged of.

This type of misleading MSRP goes on all the time on Groupon and they have taken some real heat for it. They sell refurbished Apple laptops and they would list current apple laptops MSRP. Several years ago they wouldn't even state that the item was refurbished or even when it was made. The prices looked great - 40% off and people snapped them up - only to find out they were buying a seven year old laptop - whose specs weren't upgraded. Well you know apple only supports them for about 8 years and even then you better have a pretty robust set up if you want to run the latest op systems etc. Groupon still sells them with the compare to prices of a new one, but now does list that they are refurbished. People still have to ask in the question section when they were made. Saving a few hundred bucks on a old laptop that will have a hard time with the latest software and so many parts that a refurb won't touch unless they aren't working, like a power supply which can fail in an instant, is hardly a bargain IMHO.

There are indeed many products that can be great buys that are refurbished - but sellers need to make it clear that they are refurbished and the age and there needs to be some type of disclaimer about the compare to MSRP prices of new ones. There have been laws enacted in some states the last few years that deal with the so called discount clothing outlets. They used to mislead people that you were getting the same top shelf merchandise as the named brand - they led buyers to believe they were selling the overstock or discontinued items from the famous brand clothing company. Turned out most of the stuff was made specifically to be sold in the outlet and was made of cheaper material with much less attention to sewing quality etc. and the list or compare to price was fabricated BS. I think the same type of laws need to be developed for the refurb market.
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by rperrym »

Taylor Music has one for $2550 that has been recently overhauled. Description on their website sounds like it is in nice shape.
Knowing them, I would bet it is.

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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by edsel585960 »

lost wrote:I have no pity for someone who buys this(it's nice!). I have no pity for anyone who believes ANY MSRP. I have no pity for anyone who doesn't research before making a big buy like this.
Amen. Do your homework before buying.
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groth
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by groth »

The rest of us have no pity for dishonesty in listing ads. Whoever gets this horn however will be happy with it either way.
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by groth »

lost wrote:When i was a kid collecting comic books, i used to value each of my books as the highest book value in near mint condition. Naturally they weren't in mint condition, but in my eyes i believed they were worth that or could be worth that. Was I being dishonest? or did i really believe they could be worth that? I have no pity for those who assume the worst of people.
The difference is you weren't selling these on Ebay for profit with a 100% feedback rating to keep clean like WitchitaBand is. If it's a fun hobby like comic books and (you're a kid) it's not that big of a deal. No one is assuming the "worst" here, just calling BS on his description and had hopes he would fix it by removing irrelevant MSRP numbers. I'm sure they got their 100% through many years of hard work and customer service, just doesn't set well for some reason.
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by toobagrowl »

A few points to be made:

- The listing has now ended/expired.

- The seller described the valves as "excellent" and showed pics of the valves, appearing to be in great condition with no pitting or plating wear.

- The seller DID correct himself/herself in the MSRP price description if you read it.

So, yeah :wink:
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by greenbean »

Whatever... :|
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by tofu »

lost wrote:When i was a kid collecting comic books, i used to value each of my books as the highest book value in near mint condition. Naturally they weren't in mint condition, but in my eyes i believed they were worth that or could be worth that. Was I being dishonest? or did i really believe they could be worth that? I have no pity for those who assume the worst of people.
You weren't a long time business THAT KNOWS exactly what it is selling and that it is trying to compare it to not only a new (and significantly different) version of the horn, but also a "Brand NEW" horn with no potential traps like worn valves and even at that the - MRSP is overstated. These guys are in the business of buying & cosmetically overhauling / reselling used horns. If they don't know what they are selling then that would say something about them. They are a business and yes they are held to a higher standard - not just by some of us - but by the law. And some of us do care that less experienced buyers don't get deceived by BOGUS comparisons. It's one thing to say an adult player should do their homework. They most likely have an idea that pretty isn't always better and also just how very expensive a valve job would be on a prettied up used horn. A high school kid would most likely not have that knowledge or wisdom.
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by bort »

Not good enough!!! :roll: :P
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Re: Refurbished King 2341

Post by groth »

Probably because someone bought the horn the second time it "ended".
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