.

[tokuno]

My son gained acceptance to his 1st-choice (non-music) college, but they have a (very) limited music program, and after much deliberation, he decided to scratch the music itch. He auditioned for and was accepted into the Marine band program.

He figured he'd serve his country, get in great shape, shoot fun weaponry, travel the world (still in his 1st enlistment, he's been east to France, north to Nova Scotia, west to Colorado, up and down the East Coast, and my wife and I are flying out to New Orleans in February to see him perform at Mardi Gras), earn his undergrad, qualify for the post-911 bill to cover graduate school, have a blast playing music, and finish with money in the bank instead of six figures in debt like some of his high school peers.

Maybe it's not for everyone, but for him it has been a hands-down great decision. We thought he might make a career of it, but he's had a chance to look around, and is considering re-upping out of music and into computer security, with an eye toward leaving the military thereafter, and making his way in the private sector.

We had our reservations about his maturation level out of high school, but the Marines have been an accelerated "grow up fast" program, and we're excited for his future (and so is he). Might be worth your consideration . . .

I don't think I saw this in any of the other posts it's what I did in 1970. Audition for a service band. Make sure your reading chops are at their best. If you get in you get 2 years worth of theory, lots of playing, and learn bass at the "whatever it is called now" school of music. Then you apply and hone these skills in whatever band you go to. It's different than college, you're working. Then you either re-up because you like it or because there's no work on the outside or get out with the GI Bill in your pocket(home loan money and school money) and continue in music or start a new major and always have the skills you got from Unckie Sam at your disposal for fun or profit. Best of luck to you. Ed

[rodmathews]

Look up Steve Dumaine, the principal tuba in the National Symphony. He has been ultra successful playing the tuba, and has also been really successful in other areas. He has a metal working side business where he makes incredible things out of iron. I'm sure he can give you some solid "been there done that" advice on the topic, as has bloke.

I would encourage you to find ways to set yourself up for gainful employment after you get done with school and have to pay for it. A tuba performance degree isn't going to be that for most people. There are lots of great jobs in tech and in the trades that aren't filled because there aren't enough candidates.

I played tuba full time in the Sacramento Symphony after graduating from Juilliard, and the orchestra went bankrupt a few years into my career. There weren't a lot of auditions on the horizon and I didn't particularly like the odds, so I went into tech where I've had a very successful career. I still play tuba in professional groups, and have been fortunate to play with some really great players on a regular basis. Ultimately I get to make a living in tech AND play the tuba, and I consider myself very fortunate in both areas.

[Roger Lewis]

To quote Mike Tyson, "Everyone has a plan until they're punched in the face".

Steve Dillon, a few others and myself were discussing this issue at a conference a little while back. You have a better chance of becoming the short stop for the New York Yankees than winning a major audition. You have a better chance of being elected to Congress than winning a major audition.

In this country, there are maybe 150 jobs (including military bands) that pay a living wage. The major cities have one major orchestra. Berlin, Germany has 7 major orchestras because in many places in Europe the governments believe in what the arts contribute and the orchestras are funded by the government.

Get a 2nd degree in IT. People with these skills are always in demand and they are paid very well. But test the waters for your dream. Find someone who is doing what you want to do in music and find out how they got there. It took me my whole life to get where i am, but I started freelancing in NYC right out of high school. In addition I was extremely lucky. I have 3 degrees and never paid a dime in tuition. If you are going to take out student loans to go to college, you better have a plan in place for starting to pay them back shortly after you graduate. Which means you'll need to be employable right away .

Just my thoughts for what they're worth.

Roger

[Radar]

I've been a part time musician most of my adult life, I get the occasional paying gig with a couple of local big bands (on bass trombone), and some church work from time to time. Even my time in an Army Band was part time as a reservist on Euphonium. I've made the bulk of my living as an Electronic Technician working for the local government on Traffic signals, and the systems that coordinate them. This being said I've played with and know a lot of other musicians at many different levels. Including college music professors, and Rochester Philharmonic players, as well as numerous part timers, and hobbyists like myself.

Those that are really driven to be full time musicians usually find a way to do it and make a living (although some a very meager one) at it, or at least playing and a related field like teaching music. One of the best local musicians I know is a trumpet player who plays in multiple groups around town, as well as teaching private lessons, and directing a couple of local community ensembles. He has recently learned to tune pianos as a side job as well. We often on these forums advise young adults about the pitfalls of being a professional musician, and you should go into it with a realistic expectation, but we also neglect to tell you about the people who do make a go of it. A degree in music is a Bachelor of Arts Degree, and even if you wind up going in a total different direction after college isn't a total waste. It is easier to get into the Top service bands if you have a music degree also. You are young, and if you have the drive and work ethic you can make a go of it, but be prepared to hustle and make your own opportunities.

[Donn]

My feeling about it: "work" is what it sounds like. Has its good points, but it isn't the same as "life". For example, I like women, but I wouldn't want to have a job ... you know, doing that. Music, same.

[Three Valves]

My feeling about it: "work" is what it sounds like. Has its good points, but it isn't the same as "life". For example, I like women, but I wouldn't want to have a job ... you know, doing that. Music, same.

Making a living at it ruins everything.

Even, you know...

[tubajoe]

How can I make a living as a tuba player anyways? I'm a high school senior who already has this path made out, I'm not good at anything else. I'm about to go into college auditions which I feel confident for, but I don't know what I'll do after school.

What do you guys do? I'm considering getting a minor in something useful like business, so I can have some real life experience. I'm just worried that my future is going to be pretty depressing considering the severe lack of tuba jobs. My friends in my Youth Orchestra tell me I'm a great tuba player and I'll go far but I just don't know what to do afterwards.

I need some advice for the future. What's something I should do before I regret missing it? Please.

I'm late to the party as usual, but I'll chime...

Countries/cities/communities vary a LOT with how much they support and value the arts and their artists. Take this and the character of your chosen place of residence into deep consideration.

You've got to be prepared to be a salmon fighting up that proverbial stream....

In some manner or another, you are going to spend just about every moment forcing a square peg into a round hole.... playing an obscure (to the public) instrument. We are primarily "live acoustic" musicians who on the surface make our obvious bank with historical recreation of old, obscure, music.

It's not an easy road... and the music world is FICKLE. It's a grim popularity contest, always. ...even in the classical world, and even in academia.

You'll be looking inside yourself a LOT.

As mentioned here, you do it not because you want to do it, not even because you "have do to it".... you do it because "aw crap, what the eff else would I do?"

But, you've got to accept that for what it is and if you choose that "artist road", be prepared for a lot of hard times and a lot of down lows... but I'm telling you the ups are better than just about any other vocation gets to experience.

You can't look at it as "How do I support myself with the tuba?" Look at it as: "How can I survive while doing what I do?" It's a complex and downright existential question.

There are no clear cut rules. And every time you think there are, look and you'll see someone new succeeding by breaking them.... that's the beauty of what we do.

[michaelrmurrin]

The main thing that I want to say on this topic is that making a living in music is something much more realistic and plausible when you approach it from the standpoint of doing many different musical things. Being open to doing many different musical things at once will put you in a much better position to make a living. You can make money doing one or more of any of the following things: playing, teaching lessons, teaching brass coachings, composing music and selling it, arranging music and selling it, conducting, directing bands, being a recording engineer, sound engineer, and all sorts of other things I haven't mentioned. So if you start early on getting experience and skills in other music-related areas, these skills can serve you to help you make a living. And you can also do music-related work that is less "musical" per se, like working as a music librarian, instrument repair, administrative positions, etc. So you don't have to approach it as "I can't make a living unless I find a full-time playing gig". If you can do a lot of different things, and approach it from the perspective of being open to the possibility of doing many different musical things at once, you are putting yourself in a much better position to be able to make a living in music.

I hope this input helps. That's the main thing I wanted to say about the music field.

Now, it still may be useful to minor in something else to have other kinds of skills that may serve you. It's very useful to have another skill for which you can apply to jobs to do some sort of part-time or contract work when you need to make some extra money on the side. So maybe find another skill that might be able to make you some money, and either minor in that field, or get some experience working in that field. Having other skills and experience outside of the music field can also serve you as well.

[k001k47]

Military band. Do it.

[Three Valves]

No matter how bleak your future looks when you are 20, the future will look three times more bleak when you are 60!!

[k001k47]

The word, "bleak", sounds so bleak.

Bloke bluked bleak

[Three Valves]

Grey skies are gonna clear up...

[FarahShazam]

And another thing....

When music becomes a “job” it becomes tedious, you begin to resent it and hate your boss.

I love my music job. It's not tedious and I don't resent it (parts of it I'm not super enjoying but I'm finding small ways to make it enjoyable). You don't want your job to be a "job." You want it to be part of your life and something you do to help you concentrate on other things for half the day. Personally speaking, if I have only one thing to focus upon, it becomes suffocating. Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that being a mother and a law student afforded her a respite from each part of her life. You might LOVE your profession but if you can find a balance, that balance will recharge you. This is the reason I find my job so worthwhile. I play music then I go to do my collateral duties, then I go home and spend time with the fam. When one of them is out of balance, I force to make the other ones to take a more active part in my life. After a while, it will be my fam and my core job.

[Slamson]

I suppose this is as good a time as any to cite my experience and also put it out there.
Those who have read my occasional inputs to this group may know that I’ve been teaching at “a mid-sized public university” for a good number of years. It’s been a great job, getting paid to play the tuba and teach it to enthusiastic students, having some great colleagues, and getting to swim in the thought-inducing waters of academia.
For a number of years, I’ve been realizing that tenured professor positions like mine were going the way of the Dodo… every year it seems like there are schools replacing retired applied faculty with adjunct faculty. I started as an adjunct, and remember thinking “ok, this doesn’t pay s#!t, but it will lead to a full-time gig”, and eventually it did, but as jobs get scarcer, I see an awful lot of players pursuing the same strategy, only to still be adjuncts (with no benefits…) years later. It’s a tough life!
That “mid-sized public university” I’ve been devoted to for decades has been hit very hard by state budget cutbacks, which in turn has led to a sharp decline in enrollment everywhere except in the School of Music (thanks to a rabid bunch of faculty going out and recruiting!). We’ve all taken pay cuts to try to minimize those losses, but they keep coming. In November, just before the end of the semester, ranking faculty were offered a big bonus if they retired… immediately! Within four weeks I went from being a professor to being out on the street. Do I miss it? You bet! (It's good to know that they WILL be filling my position!)
Part of my point is that I’ve centered my entire life around playing and teaching. I ran into a music critic backstage at an orchestra concert once, and he asked me what I do in my spare time – “what kind of hobbies do you have?” – and I was stunned, saying “hobbies? I’m a musician!”, but really – now that I’m retired from this gig (quite suddenly!) I don’t have any skills outside of being in music. I’m still playing in an orchestra, and doing some teaching on the side, but I’m still grappling with what to do with the rest of my time. Eventually I’ll probably try to play in community groups, once I can remember that I don’t do this just to pick up a paycheck when I finish playing. It’s that or start wearing out a rocking chair, I guess.
So the advice that you’re getting from everyone to work your butt off to master your instrument is good. The advice to be realistic is better (I don’t think Tom Brady is going to be able to cop an orchestra job once he retires…). I’ve spent years being unable to imagine myself doing anything but what I’ve been doing because I’ve loved it so much, but I was lucky… and the reality of our times says that the next generation of tuba players is going to have to be VERY lucky, as well as VERY good. The amount of sacrifice in time, money, and pleasure (I remember one of my teachers telling me I’d be eating a lot of baloney and white bread!) has always been difficult, and often the most talented of us doesn’t get the gig because they’re just not willing to make those sacrifices. That’s only going to get tougher.
(Heavy sigh here…) If you can’t imagine doing anything but playing the tuba, then prepare for years of hard work and dedication. If you never reach the point where it all seems pointless… if you’re always loving it when you’re playing, even when you’re exhausted from practice, then you’re probably in the right vocation (and avocation!)

[LJLovegren]

Be sure to be fully competent playing bass guitar and bass viol.

[Alex C]

As a high school senior your path is not "made out." You haven't committed to anything, so remove that from your equation.

I made a living on tuba for many years but so many of the things I did no longer exist. There are no circus gigs, session work is HIGHLY competitive, there are no rodeo gigs, there are precious few musicals using a tuba. About the only thing left are local orchestras which will pay you about $2-4000 a year with no expenses or benefits.

If you are extraordinarily talented, determined and driven, you might be able to develop your own gig. You might become the next Canadian Brass, or the leader of a tuba fueled jazz band (if a banjo can lead, so can a tuba). You might even become a youTube sensation with a following of thousands and make money online but the traditional ways of playing for a living are drying up... or already dried up.

Other music opportunities for a job in music are as a 1) band director, 2) you have a small chance of becoming a college teacher, and 3) a minuscule chance of becoming an full time orchestral tuba player. I have friends who enjoy a decent living as a salesman in the music business.

You have to figure out your path but playing tuba for a living will be an uphill battle. Again, get rid of the concept that your life is already mapped out. These days, I highly encourage people to be a professional something and play music on the side. You can still enjoy it tremendously. You might even make enough money to buy all the horns you want to buy and drive a Corvette. If you do, you'll be the envy of every other tuba player in town.

[Leland]

My son gained acceptance to his 1st-choice (non-music) college, but they have a (very) limited music program, and after much deliberation, he decided to scratch the music itch. He auditioned for and was accepted into the Marine band program.
......
We had our reservations about his maturation level out of high school, but the Marines have been an accelerated "grow up fast" program, and we're excited for his future (and so is he). Might be worth your consideration . . .

I don't think I saw this in any of the other posts it's what I did in 1970. Audition for a service band. Make sure your reading chops are at their best. If you get in you get 2 years worth of theory, lots of playing, and learn bass at the "whatever it is called now" school of music. Then you apply and hone these skills in whatever band you go to. It's different than college, you're working. Then you either re-up because you like it or because there's no work on the outside or get out with the GI Bill in your pocket(home loan money and school money) and continue in music or start a new major and always have the skills you got from Unckie Sam at your disposal for fun or profit. Best of luck to you. Ed

+1 to giving military service some serious consideration. Besides the playing itself and the GI Bill, there will be opportunities for team management, unit operations, supervisory positions (if you stay long enough to get into the NCO/SNCO ranks), and other aspects that will help in any other professional field after you get out.

[swillafew]

I helped a young man gain a spot in the USMC as a tuba player in 2018. Mind you, he hadn't played anything that thousands of others couldn't do just as well, but the spot was open and now it's his. See if there are other spots open. In this way, my young friend is already living his dream.

As for studying music, we were told years ago in school that keyboard playing is what puts bread on the table. Teaching, accompanying, aiding others' studies (conducting classes, etc), and you stand to benefit in other ways too by being a solid musician at a keyboard. Read Dizzy Gillsepie's "To Be or Not to Bop" for more ways to put the piano to work.

[Watchman]

Get out. Like right now, while you still have time. Your chance of being successful is really low. Even if you are successful, you won't make a lot of money. If you are a once in a generation type of talent, like Carol Jantsch, go for it. Have you won any playing competitions against masters and doctoral level players recently while in high school? If the answer is no, then you aren't a once in a generation talent.

Do what bloke said and get a trade. Worried you're not good enough or smart enough? Don't be. A lot of these jobs aren't rocket science, you just don't know how to do them yet. My brother in law is an electrician. To be honest, he's also a bit of a dumb s***. Doesn't matter. He's good at his job, makes six figures, and has a decent size house in the country.

Anybody who wants to boo hoo about me being overly cynical, I say humbug to you. Maybe in ten years this kid will be sitting in an orchestra, but there's a bigger chance he'll be holding a fancy doctorate degree, be about 60k in debt, making about five grand a year playing obscure gigs, and getting ready to start his barista career. Shoulda been a carpenter....

[Steginkt]

Dumb. You can do alot with a degree in the arts. There are tons of opportunities for music business, artistic administration, or music history. Studying music performance doesn't mean you have to be a world class performer short of nothing. Practice builds self reflection, critical thinking, and the ability to persevere towards goals over multiple years time. Just try to be smart and have an open mind about where you want to go.