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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby toobagrowl » Fri May 03, 2019 3:51 pm

JCRaymo wrote:Didn't yamaha offer a 5th valve add on for their small 4 valve top action Eb? Never played one but I have heard they were really nice playing little tubas with a bigger sound than you would think.

Mark Finley wrote:they did, but it had two problems. First, the 5th valve was only a long half step, which is next to useless, and 2nd it was dependent on the 4th valve loop, which some people didn't like. Not to mention that some people just don't like upright valve instruments.


A long/flat-half-step 5th valve would just mean you play everything in the lower register down a half-step from the conventional flat-whole-step 5th valve. So low F would now be 5+1+3+4 instead of 5+2+3+4. Unconventional maybe, but not a big deal. You'd set your 4th and 5th slides for best low register intonation.

Yet I see noone here bitch about the weird M3 (2+3) 5th valve setup on old Mirafones :roll:

Donn wrote:
JCRaymo wrote:Didn't yamaha offer a 5th valve add on for their small 4 valve top action Eb? Never played one but I have heard they were really nice playing little tubas with a bigger sound than you would think.


In addition to the issues mentioned above - as best I can make out, the YEB 321 is not a little tuba at all. I mean, it isn't as big as a 4/4 BBb, but for an Eb tuba it's about as big as they come. In terms of bugle size, like diameter 6 feet back from the bell end. I can only look at pictures, but it looks to me to be close to the size of MW 2141, York monster, etc.


Some may consider the YEB-321/381 a 'smallish' Eb tuba. I would not say "it's about as big as they come" regarding Eb tubas --> Smaller bell and valve bore than the large Wilson, Meinl and B&S Eb tubas; Smaller bell and outer bows than the old American 'Monster' Eb tubas made by York, Holton, Conn, and King :idea:
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby Mark Finley » Fri May 03, 2019 4:02 pm

Except you don't even get a low E if you have a flat 1/2 step valve, the lowest note you have is an F 12345. The fingering 1345 is very sharp.
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby bloke » Fri May 03, 2019 4:07 pm

Donn wrote:
JCRaymo wrote:Didn't yamaha offer a 5th valve add on for their small 4 valve top action Eb? Never played one but I have heard they were really nice playing little tubas with a bigger sound than you would think.


In addition to the issues mentioned above - as best I can make out, the YEB 321 is not a little tuba at all. I mean, it isn't as big as a 4/4 BBb, but for an Eb tuba it's about as big as they come. In terms of bugle size, like diameter 6 feet back from the bell end. I can only look at pictures, but it looks to me to be close to the size of MW 2141, York monster, etc.

Among current production Eb tubas, not much that's small. You can guess from the testimonials why - when the finest compliment is "plays like a big one" ... hm, why not just get a big one?


agreed...a non-comp. "copy" of an English comp. tuba... with a 15" bell identical to the pre-Fletcher-era 19" bell
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby toobagrowl » Fri May 03, 2019 4:23 pm

Mark Finley wrote:Except you don't even get a low E if you have a flat 1/2 step valve, the lowest note you have is an F 12345. The fingering 1345 is very sharp.


I guess everyone 'blows' different in the lower register. But still, you set your 4th and 5th slides for the lower register. At least, that's what I do.
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby 2ba4t » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:54 am

There seem to be several smaller Ebs available as the fashion is gradually coming round to building narrower, punchier instruments.

Triggers solve nearly all tuning problems. In very fast passages nobody notices anyway! The compensating system of course solves only 1 + 4; 2 + 4 and 3 + 4. When you use 2 valves with the 4th you are again sharp. Triggers on 4,3 and 1st slides are much lighter and more accurate.

Wessex make their version of the old, old small bell Imperial Eb. If it as good as the originals it will be superb. Others of course make compact Ebs.

I am searching for a really good Miraphone 183 which I think has a singular, particularly rich, 'horn like' sound. I have a stable (below) I am now about to sell as I am retiring and emigrating. This has some small and very small Ebs. I hope to have a video made of each being played with close ups of all the defects. I am interested in swapping for a really good 183 or equivalent.

TUBAS (last figure is height)
1. Eb Hawkes 4v non-comp brass; vintage. wonderful ‘Eb euphonium’ sound. Excellent condition. 12 lbs 30” Perfect for child. (much smaller than the earliest Imperials)
2. Eb Boosey Solbron 4v comp SP Same as F Catelinet used for VW concerto excellent blower. SP in fair condition. 13.4lbs 29” Perfect for child. (much smaller than the earliest Imperials)
3. Eb Boosey & Hawkes 4v comp SP Same as F Catelinet used for VW concerto excellent blower. SP in fairly fair condition. 13.4lbs 29” [twin of above] Perfect for child.
4. Eb Miraphone 3v brass lac. excellent blower, good condition, few dings. Front and upright bell. 15lbs 42” I may put on 2 rotary valves from a dismantled 183.
5. Eb Miraphone 4v prob old 183 brass; excellent blower, few dings. Terrible lacquer – may sell rather than strip down, polish and lacquer.12.9lbs 40”
6. Eb Cverney 4v 641 brass lac. excellent blower, excellent condition, one or two tiny dings. 12.5 lbs 38”. Good Cerveny sound. Light, smooth
7. F Cverney 4v 641 brass lac. excellent blower, excellent condition, one or two tiny dings. With Eb crook - works perfectly as Eb - 12.7 lbs 38” Good Cerveny sound. Light, smooth
8. CC mini (Chinese?/custom) 4v brass lac excellent blower, few dings. Slight scratching on bell – dent removal. A tiny thing for a CC – looks like a small Eb. Very punchy esp 4th valve - with BBb crook works equally well as mini-BBb.17.5 lbs 34”
9. BBb Barth 4v old 6/4 brass Kaiser excellent blower. Few dents. Poor lacq. Scruffy but perfectly functional. 19.5lbs 42”
10. EEb Besson 983 excellent early model. Few dings. Beautiful blower. My professional horn – but just too heavy. 15.2 lbs 34”

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