Bass Trumpets

[Simonk]

Has anyone had much experience of the Bass Trumpet offerings by Wessex or Mack Brass? Not looking for a high end instrument costing £000's (thats tuba money...) but still want something serviceable that'll manage trumpet repertoire/ timbre (- an octave!) using a euph mouthpiece. Had a quick look via search both here and the David Werden site and not much to go by.... they are quite niche beasties.

Grateful for any views

Simon

[Matt G]

Have you tried the trumpet or trombone boards?

[hup_d_dup]

I have a Getzen bass trumpet that I use to play trombone parts (the sound is similar to a tenor trombone). The horn is well built and sounds nice in the mid to upper registers, but I have found (like everyone else I have ever spoken to that plays bass trumpet) that the low register is cramped and stuffy. My guess is that is because the bore is small relative to the pitch of the instrument (.486).

Wessex (.460) and Mack (.459) have even smaller bores. There must be some reason for this as bass trumpets commonly have small bores. But they are all stuffy. There is a Meinl Weston bass trumpet that has a bore of .551 which I would love to try, but I have never seen one.

I would say, if you can, try one out before you buy. You are also going to find that your euphonium mouthpiece, unless it has a small shank, is not going to fit.

Hup

[Big Toot]

Decades ago, someone using a King Flugabone on an all-Wagner concert made me realize that those are better bass trumpets than most bass trumpets (fwiw: quite easy to shorten to C, if someone desires a bass trumpet in C)...and you can use your euphonium mouthpiece, but the smallest-possible trombone mouthpiece offers a more characteristic sound.

"Flugabone"...HAHAHAHA! I love it!

[JasonEuphonium]

I was personally very unimpressed by the Wessex's bass trumpets at ITEC. OK sound but near-unbearable intonation. The piston horn was marginally better than the rotor one.

I have also tried a Bach Strad bass trumpet, which was very, very nice.

[Ace]

Working from memory here, but I seem to remember a long ago phone conversation with Dave Fedderly about bass trumpets. I think he recommended the Thein brand.

https://thein-blechblasinstrumente.de/?lang=en" target="_blank" target="_blank

https://thein-blechblasinstrumente.de/0 ... ete-ny.php" target="_blank

Ace

[DavidBalcerzak]

I have a Wessex Bb Bass Trumpet and a Chinese model Eb Bass Trumpet. Both play great for me.

[Simonk]

Thank you all for your helpful insights - as I said, I wasn't after something costing tuba money, more a few hundreds so... may well look into the flugabone route if I can find a decent King one this side of the pond. I've a Wessex euph which is OK for what I need (occasional doubling) hence looking at their bass trumpet offerings but the flugabone with a broader 'bone sound (in a compact wrap) may be more doable.

Thanks again - Simon

[timothy42b]

Of the bass trumpets I've heard in person locally, the Dotzauer had by far the best sound. It was more like a bass trumpet than a valve trombone. There is an edge to bass trumpet that the flugabone doesn't get. IMO.

I did not play it and couldn't say anything about intonation. I didn't ask the price but it was probably not cheap.

[bbocaner]

I own a Thein NY model and a Mount Vernon Bach as well as a Kanstul flugabone.

I think the flugabone is a VERY poor substitute. It just doesn't get the trumpety timbre no matter what you do with your airflow and mouthpieces.

I don't like the options from Wessex and Mack. The Wessex rotary instrument doesn't sound bad but has extremely poor intonation. The piston instruments from both are just lousy IMO.

I *really* like the Laetzsch a lot. It is certainly not as elegantly designed as the Thein but plays just as well and the carbon valves are extremely slick! The Alexander is probably 90% of the instrument that the Thein or Laetzsch is for about 50% of the price.

There's another chinese instrument that apparently isn't too bad, though. I haven't played one myself, but a few people I trust have and had good things to say.

https://www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com/stor ... c-trumpet/" target="_blank

[MackBrass]

Thank you all for your helpful insights - as I said, I wasn't after something costing tuba money, more a few hundreds so... may well look into the flugabone route if I can find a decent King one this side of the pond. I've a Wessex euph which is OK for what I need (occasional doubling) hence looking at their bass trumpet offerings but the flugabone with a broader 'bone sound (in a compact wrap) may be more doable.

Thanks again - Simon

I dont normally chime in on these kind of posts but since our name was brought up I will make an exception. Most bass trumpets are made using a trumpet valve section, hence the stuffy low register. At the same time, with practice they are very manageable. We only carry the piston version as the rotary has horrific pitch to deal with. There are two approaches you can take when looking at bass trumpets, first is to sound like a tenor trombone or 2nd sound like a trumpet playing in the low register. Larger bore and bell will give you a more trombone like sound and the opposite will give you a more low register trumpet type sound. The Mack is more of the lower register trumpet type sound. To me, all bass trumpets have a pretty stuffy low register but then again, that's not really what you are buying them for. If the desire to use them for low register stuff was intended then adding a larger bore and a 4th valve would make sense.

Here is a video of me struggling to play bass trumpet, this was the second time I had ever played one. In the hands of a euph player or a tuba player with euph/bone chops, they really sound great.

Dont be mean now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSEZVUxg ... plpp_video" target="_blank

[MackBrass]

I don't like the options from Wessex and Mack. The Wessex rotary instrument doesn't sound bad but has extremely poor intonation. The piston instruments from both are just lousy IMO.

Could you elaborate? We have been selling the piston model for about 8 years and have never had one returned. I think they are pretty good myself.

[GC]

vociferous sphincter

Sounds like a good punk or parody band name.

[windshieldbug]

vociferous sphincter

Sounds like a good punk or parody band name.

I think they were practicing last night in my garage...

[bbocaner]

There's another chinese instrument that apparently isn't too bad, though.

Made by Jinbao. This is the same piston horn as the ones you just bashed. Perhaps I am wrong about that, but Schiller is a seller of Jinbao horns for the most part. The only thing German about that horn is that some sphincter typed the word "Frankfurt" in the ad copy so we all wold infer a connection. There is none. It is as Chinese as our phones...

Did you follow the link? It's a four-valve rotary instrument in C. May be made by jinbao, I don't know - but it is a different design. Mack & Wessex might do well to get their hands on some of these.

Did I say it was German? I don't know why you bolded all those words. I know what Schiller is, but they are selling a model that the other importers are not.

[bbocaner]

I don't like the options from Wessex and Mack. The Wessex rotary instrument doesn't sound bad but has extremely poor intonation. The piston instruments from both are just lousy IMO.

Could you elaborate? We have been selling the piston model for about 8 years and have never had one returned. I think they are pretty good myself.

They don't slot well and have a tone more like a stuffy trombone than a trumpet. It feels a lot like the old Getzen to me, rather than the bach which actually works pretty well. Intonation isn't super but it's a heck of a lot better than the 3-valve rotary one which incidentally slots really nice and has a much nicer sound but has awful intonation.

[GC]

Largemouth bass trumpet?

Or maybe crappie trumpet? I don't know fish well . . .

[MackBrass]

I don't like the options from Wessex and Mack. The Wessex rotary instrument doesn't sound bad but has extremely poor intonation. The piston instruments from both are just lousy IMO.

Could you elaborate? We have been selling the piston model for about 8 years and have never had one returned. I think they are pretty good myself.

They don't slot well and have a tone more like a stuffy trombone than a trumpet. It feels a lot like the old Getzen to me, rather than the bach which actually works pretty well. Intonation isn't super but it's a heck of a lot better than the 3-valve rotary one which incidentally slots really nice and has a much nicer sound but has awful intonation.

When someone makes a blanket statement such are yours, I would like to know how many of these you actually played that had a Mack Brass or Wessex logo on them? There are probably a few dozen companies in china that make bass trumpets, Jinbao may be the largest but they are not the only game in town. Unless you play each one of my horns before or after they are sold, I think your blanket statement is way off the mark.

The other issue I have is that just because you dont like the sound or it doesn't slot the way you prefer, doesn't mean they have a bad sound we or slot poorly. Sound is a concept that is individual to each person, just because you dont like it, doesn't mean its bad. Maybe in the future, you could say something like the sound doesn't work for you because it certainly works for a lot of others out there.

I dont mean to get into a posting contest but I work to hard to select what I feel are the best models available that meet the highest standards of today's professional musician so we may satisfy as wide of a range of customers as possible.

[bbocaner]

I've played a handful of each whether it be at trade stands or belonging to friends. I don't think one needs to play every single example of a particular marque and model to have an opinion about how they play. Compare the sound against the established benchmarks for the instrument: Mick Mulcahy's excerpts CD, Denson Paul Pollard in the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra, Elliott Mason's jazz playing, Helene Escriva's use of the bass trumpet as a solo instrument. Can you give me an example where the use of one of your instruments sounds more like one of these players? Because I haven't heard it. And I have a lot of experience with instruments that are generally considered "good" by some of the best players, and yours do not play the same way. I'm not anti-import by the way and generally think that JinBao and others are making some nice instruments.

My "blanket statement" did include the disclaimer that it was my opinion, which is what the OP was soliciting.

A lot of professionals are willing to buy something that costs less than $500 just so they have one or for fun or a compact practice instrument, that doesn't necessarily mean they think it's a great instrument.

Have you tried the 4-valve rotary instrument in C that Schiller is selling? If you got a sample I'd be happy to drive down to see you and to try it. I will bring my Thein and MV bach and we will compare them all and can video the whole thing for youtube.

[Wyvern]

Wessex is working on a new bass trumpet in collaboration with the principal trombone of a major US orchestra - but it won’t be out before 2020. That will be available in Bb and C with 4-valves.

At that time the present bass trumpets in catalog will be discontinued, although like Tom, I have not heard many bad comments on these, and I don’t recall any returned.