Why are stainless mouthpieces not accepted by many?

[doublebuzzing]

I have read a comment by the trumpet maker David Monette on Facebook where he said, "We will never make a stainless mouthpiece. The sound and resonance is just horrible in our reality."

What is the basis of this judgement? I have played both stainless and regular mouthpieces and never noticed a difference other than the durability of stainless is far superior.

[Dan Tuba]

From my experience, there are slightly different resonance/sound properties with the different types of materials available to manufactur mouthpieces(Brass, Stainless steel, Titanium, Lexan, Delrin). I have owned all the different types listed.

I found that the biggest differences in sound/resonance came from the following:
1)Internal/external cup/rim/throat/backbore shapes.
2)How the player responds to the material that comes in contact with the face. Slippery, sticky, etc.

[tbonesullivan]

I take everything David Monette says with a grain of salt. I often wonder how much he KNOWS vs how much he CLAIMS to know. Pretty much anything he gets involved with involves him finding out things that no one else ever noticed before. I remember back when he was working on making a trombone, which I don't remember ever seeing going into production. Basically said that all of the trombones bells out there were made wrong because they didn't flare out all the way to perpendicular with the bell axis. His bells would, and therefore were better.

Stainless works for quite a number of people out there, and it works well for those. If it doesn't work for you, then it just doesn't. I had a stainless mouthpiece once, and I just never bonded with it.

[Dan Tuba]

I like 24AWs ...no, seriously. They feel great in my messed up teeth

[Yane]

Let a thousand flowers bloom. I love my Stainless Parker, like my plastic Kellys, and loathe the sticky on the lips feel of gold plated mouthpieces I have tried. Others’ preferences are fine for them. The hardness of stainless is good for resisting nicks when the mouthpiece gets dropped. On the other hand if a stainless shank gets out of round, I wonder how many times it can tolerate straightening before cracking?

[Donn]

I'd kind of like to try a stainful steel mouthpiece some time. Or cast iron. I'd like to store it in an oil bath, pluck it out and wipe it off when ready to play.

[bort]

I used a stainless mouthpiece for about 4 years straight. Never hated it, but never really loved the feel, either. Joe will always tease me about it, but it just never felt "good" to me, and I always preferred regular brass.

Monette... Well, that guy has all sorts of ideas, and that's ok. The world needs thinkers and wacky ideas. Is he right? Well, he thinks he's right, maybe that's all that matters to him. And remember, he's a trumpet and trumpet mouthpiece manufacturer. Those guys are ego++++ and have pissing matches over hearing the grass grow. And what do I know, maybe a stainless trumpet mouthpiece is outright shrill compared to brass. Metals seem to make a difference for the smaller instruments. Solid silver bells, gold flutes, etc. Tubas are huge, and small differences don't make much difference. There's some quote I'll paraphrase and get all wrong... But basically that a pinhole will ruin a trumpet, and a bullethole won't affect a tuba.

And isn't there some theory about how the most miniscule events can change the course of history? Like, if I went to bed 5 minutes earlier, I wouldn't have written to this, and wouldn't have clicked the ad on the side by mistake, and wouldn't have woken up my wife, who then... Blah blah blah...

Maybe people think that the smallest change to the beginning of a sound is just the biggest deal in the world. As if there is no human factor left in terms of making music, rhythm, style, ...

I gave up on stainless because of the feel. Just didn't like it anymore compared to brass. Totally get the appeal and I would never talk anyone out of it. Well, except for the ugly lettering on the side of the new G&W mouthpieces. Looks so cheap and generic to me...

Rambling, time to stop.

[Donn]

I gave up on stainless because of the feel. Just didn't like it anymore compared to brass.

... after four years. It didn't take me that long, but I suppose I'll never know for sure it wasn't just the rim. I want to like my bronze mouthpiece, but it never really hits the spot either.

[tbonesullivan]

I gave up on stainless because of the feel. Just didn't like it anymore compared to brass. Totally get the appeal and I would never talk anyone out of it. Well, except for the ugly lettering on the side of the new G&W mouthpieces. Looks so cheap and generic to me...

RIGHT?!?? The stainless MPC I had was a G&W Euros, and back then I don't even know if it said G&W on it, or just "Euros", in what is gotta be Arial font.

They laser engrave the names, so they could at least have made them look a little stylish and not like something so generic. At least now they have a nice logo on one side. They also are offering some "dragon's breath" heat treatment that makes the mouthpieces 25% harder and look cooler.

My other issue, I guess, was that at the time (around 8 years ago) G&W was one of the only games in town for SS mouthpieces. They didn't have the variety then that they do now for trombone MPCs just a BIT bigger than a 5G. With my Laskey 59MD and Hammond 11ML I found the size and type of MPC that I really got along with. Now they have the NB-102 and GW-102, which would probably work well. But, I already love the MPCS I have, so why change?

[Donn]

Any additional claims made by any about stainless steel versus brass versus bronze - as far as tuba mouthpieces are concerned - are nonsensical... and the only difference with Lexan is tactile, due to limitations in polishing the surface to an extraordinarily mirror-like finish.

No science to offer on this, but I tend to follow the theory Dan Tuba mentioned above, that different materials affect the mechanics of the contact surface, and I personally don't think it's as simple as smooth vs. not so smooth. You can find charts of static and kinetic friction (materials at rest's resistance to moving, and materials in motion's resistance, respectively) for different materials, apparently irrespective of their surface finishes. I'm no engineer and have no idea how useful those charts are, but it fits with my experience, and to the point it's very easy to believe that the oxide layer that gives stainless steel its distinctive properties, might also give it a characteristic surface friction in contact with skin. Or some skin - people play with different contact surfaces, including some facial hair even if you keep it down to surface level, various degrees of dry / wet. Silver, gold, polycarbonate plastic, stainless, each could be a little different, for various players.

[bort]

I gave up on stainless because of the feel. Just didn't like it anymore compared to brass.

... after four years. It didn't take me that long, but I suppose I'll never know for sure it wasn't just the rim. I want to like my bronze mouthpiece, but it never really hits the spot either.

During those 4 years, I owned exactly 1 mouthpiece and exactly 1 tuba. I played 3 or 4 nights per week, and didn't have the time or desire to keep switching around. Probably the best shape I was ever in as a player, and the best I've sounded.

Seems like I could take a few lessons from that...

[MaryAnn]

From the peanut gallery. Never tried stainless. Allergic to silver, so my euph mpc is a Kelly and my horn rim is gold. I had nail polish on my tuba mouthpiece. All fine. I assume stainless would be fine too.

[tbonesullivan]

I guess one thing I should also point out from my experience is that the walls of the shank on a stainless mouthpiece are often much thinner at the end than brass mouthpieces. The material is much stronger and harder, so if you are someone who is really obsessed with airflow, there is much less of a "step" at the end of the mouthpiece where it goes into the receiver.

With things out there like an "adjustable gap mouthpiece receiver", many people are much more into the minutiae of the relationship between the mouthpiece and the leadpipe venturi.

[Dan Tuba]

I like 24AWs ...no, seriously. They feel great in my messed up teeth

i have tried and tried to NOT like the 24AW's. but i keep going back to it...

For me, it's a good all purpose mouthpiece. I also really like the Kelly 50. I recently tried a Robert Tucci 24+. It's a very nice nice mouthpiece, very similar to the 24AW.

[GC]

It doesn't matter what material you make a mouthpiece out of, someone won't like it. Maybe a lot of people.

[Dan Tuba]

I really like Lexan mouthpieces. They are very comfortable and durable. My two favorite Lexan mouthpieces are the Kelly 50 and 24AW. If stainless steel works for you, I don't see or hear anything wrong with using that material for a mouthpiece. I feel the same way about Lexan, Delrin, Titanium, etc.

[Bill Troiano]

I went all stainless with Blokepieces and Ivan Giddings’ mouthpieces and I won’t go back. I’ll use my Kellybergs (in their various colors, although the rims are a bit sharp for me) once in a while too. I’m not out trying to win auditions either, but I don’t think that would affect my mouthpiece choices with what I now know and with the variety of choices available today. I play gigs - mostly polka bands, dixieland and brass quintet and I teach. Mainly due to their durability and for sanitary (??) reasons, I like the concept of stainless. Plus, I found ones that I like. Isn’t it better to have stainless on your face, rather than plated brass? I dunno. I knew a few tuba players that had problems with rashes and allergic reactions when playing. This was before stainless became a thing. For you young tuba players reading this, do not play on a mouthpiece with worn off plating or scratches or nicks. Back to my Texas whiskey - no gig tonight.

[vespa50sp]

A Kellyburg was recommended for my Conn 12J to get a bit more response. I like it compared to a standard Helleburg or the GW Diablo I've also used. As a bonus, it's made nearby in Wisconsin. I did use a Dennis Wick on my Eb though.

[tbonesullivan]

I did use a Dennis Wick on my Eb though.

Small Shank? There aren't many other makers that make the small shank mouthpieces for Eb tubas as a standard item. Sam thing as finding Euro Shank Euphonium mouthpieces. I was looking at a 3 piston compensating horn a while ago, and would have had to go for a Wick 3.

[Leland]

Tried out both stainless and titanium G&W Bayamos back-to-back-to-back (literally played a few notes, swapped, played a few notes, swapped, over and over until I forgot which was which, negating any placebo effect) and, against my monetary judgment, went with titanium. That was somewhere over ten years ago and I haven't bought another metal tuba mouthpiece since then. I've acquired a steel G&W Alan Baer that I like for brighter sounds, but I don't have much occasion to use it. I also keep a plastic Kellyberg in the car for when I feel like buzzing along with music or to warm up.

Euph- and trombone-wise, I also went with G&W in both steel and titanium. Plus I got help from Doug Elliott for a setup in regular silverplated brass to make a euph G bugle mostly [kinda] in tune.

What I like about titanium is that it feels smoother and not as hot or cold as other metals. Plastic is great for temperature extremes but is a little grippy. A bonus for all three — titanium, steel, and plastic — is that they're very easy to clean.