Gold plated Yamaha 661

[bort]

https://www.bacmusicshop.com/yamaha-custom-tuba.html" target="_blank

Saw this today...

This is cool, but... $13k? Normal 661's go for closer to $4k, so that's going to be a tough sell, gold plated, Dallenbach, titanium, "tuned to C"(?) or not.

Oh, sorry, I mean "it's going to take the right buyer..."

[The Big Ben]

The gold goes by current market value when the plating occurs. $9-10K in plating? It's pretty and shiny and stuff but....

[bort]

Yeah...

Gold playing seems very much like an up-front cost that is carried on. I mean, it's not as if it can be unplated and the gold becomes recoverable.

[bort]

Also, gold is such a soft metal isn't the plating going to wear pretty quickly? I'm sure it plays well and it probably looked great when it was brand new but I'm not so sure the price matches the reality in my eyes.

[hbcrandy]

I cannot vouch for the gold plating, but, I owned and played one ofthese CC tubas for several years. I found it to be a great, all-purpose tuba.

[bort]

I almost bought 3 different 661's this year... But ended up not buying any for various reasons (not related to lack of interest or quality).

But for $13k, this one just isn't on the radar. I'm sure it is nice!

[tbonesullivan]

What's with those very cheap looking braces installed all around the valve tubing? They look like they were added later, and the plating is gone around them. Or Also seems like it's had a lot of post plating work done.

Well, it is being sold by BAC, so you can expect it to be overpriced for what it is.

[tbonesullivan]

I think at least 50% of the horn's price is due to its provenance. When I saw the CB back in '81, I think this was the horn Chuck Daellenbach was playing. He did sound great on it.

True, but where has it been since then? It doesn't exactly look like it has been very well cared for. There are also a bunch of extra braces that do not look like the ones on the other 661s I can find.

Of course, it is customized, and the thumb valve tuning slide is definitely shorter than the others I've seen. However, I just don't see it getting the money they want for it. I don't know many tuba "collectors" who are going to pay around 8000-9000 over market for gold plating, supposed titanium valves, and the fact that chuck daellenbach played it.

[Tom]

With regards to the provenance, while it's an interesting bit of trivia that this is evidently an ex-Daellenbach tuba, it should be known that there are dozens of ex-Daellenbach tubas of various makes, models, and finishes. Many were gold plated, but not all. Different makes and models were used at different times, sometimes concurrently.

Appearances were (and I'd say still are) an important part of what Canadian Brass is about. Most of their instruments, in my opinion, are "10-footers," meaning they look like a million bucks from 10' away - think gold plating bling, etc - but upon close inspection they've been ridden hard and put up wet. Gold plating is actually a pretty crappy finish for things that are going to be handled much as it is very thin and very soft - just not durable. There are dents, dings, bell creases, and general wear and tear that come with being on the road constantly. Field repairs are made along the way if circumstances warrant. It really does not surprise me that much to see the braces, quick-and-dirty solder work, linkage and so on. Once instruments were too ratty looking, a new set was put into service.

[bort]

With regards to the provenance, while it's an interesting bit of trivia that this is evidently an ex-Daellenbach tuba, it should be known that there are dozens of ex-Daellenbach tubas of various makes, models, and finishes. Many were gold plated, but not all. Different makes and models were used at different times, sometimes concurrently.

It reminds me of when people would sell a tuba and say "this was one of Warren Deck's stage horns." That's cool, but one of... how many?

Appearances were (and I'd say still are) an important part of what Canadian Brass is about. Most of their instruments, in my opinion, are "10-footers," meaning they look like a million bucks from 10' away - think gold plating bling, etc - but upon close inspection they've been ridden hard and put up wet. Gold plating is actually a pretty crappy finish for things that are going to be handled much as it is very thin and very soft - just not durable. There are dents, dings, bell creases, and general wear and tear that come with being on the road constantly. Field repairs are made along the way if circumstances warrant. It really does not surprise me that much to see the braces, quick-and-dirty solder work, linkage and so on. Once instruments were too ratty looking, a new set was put into service.

I have no little doubt that this is true. Chuck seems to have a different horn every time I see him. Would be interesting to ask him how many different tubas (not models, actual horns) he's played with the group over his lifetime. Maybe not quite as many tuba as pairs of sneakers, but the replacement idea isn't so different...

[iiipopes]

Check out the picture of the huge dent in the bottom bow!

[T. J. Ricer]

I would assume it’s this horn:



He’s been in that group for five decades, so dozens of horns wouldn’t be particularly surprising given the number of performances they have put on!

[bort]

Low res old picture from a distance... Looks great!

[mikebmiller]

AT least your $13K includes sales tax.

[The Big Ben]

1. Is a useful 5th valve slide included as well ?

2. Can someone clarify - for me - the distinction between "unique" and "very unique" ?

It's like "unique" but more of it.

HTH

Jeff "Too much is not quite enough" Benedict

[iiipopes]

Can someone clarify - for me - the distinction between "unique" and "very unique" ?

A quantum paradox singularity?

[toobagrowl]

If this tuba was given a complete deluxe overhaul, I could see it going for around $13k. But it wasn't, so......

What's with those very cheap looking braces installed all around the valve tubing? They look like they were added later, and the plating is gone around them. Or Also seems like it's had a lot of post plating work done.

Well, it is being sold by BAC, so you can expect it to be overpriced for what it is.

Some of those outer replacement braces look Alexander to me; which are somewhat similar to the bracing used on Yamaha rotor tubas. So, not cheap. But I agree the tuba is overpriced, even if it plays very well.

Gold must be plated over silver. So that means all that gold is gone forever wherever you see silver in the photos. Also, I see silver that looks a lot like smeared soft solder, probably that awful lead-free silver-bearing junk. Yeah, trying to remove that stuff will result in removing the gold AND the underlying silver down to the bare brass; that type of solder does not buff off without a lot of force.

Looks like solder work done on some braces; Chuck D. probably broke/knocked loose some bracing during some of his many performances 'dancing' onstage, twirling his tuba around for the kiddies.
If lead-free silver-bearing solder was used, that would be better as it is nearly 10 times stronger than regular cheaper, toxic lead-based soft solder. Could be wrong, but don't some of the major makers use the more expensive, much stronger silver-bearing solder on large bracing, ferrules and leadpipes?

This gold-plated tuba looks no worse than some silver-plated tubas with lead-solder smeared/wiped off on repaired sections

[Pete Link]

This model was my first CC tuba. I had a fair amount of work done to mine in Japan years back during my Army days. A “usable” 5th slide, new linkage on the 5th to be operated by the right thumb. The older Yamaha rotors were notoriously heavy as well and I had them drilled out to lighten them up some. Can’t really remember how much that helped or not. They are fun little tubas with manageable pitch. However, as most know, they are no longer made and won’t be. Roughly 20yrs ago Yamaha moved the winds department from the Saitama Prefecture(Tokyo area) down south to Hamamatsu(Shizuoka). During that move the original mandrels were tossed as scrap! I confirmed this with the head engineer recently. I was told that the model was indeed made for the Canadian Brass, but didn’t really catch on I guess. Sadly, they don’t even have the prototype anymore.

While 13k is indeed a (gulp...)high price to pay for said horn, they are getting harder and harder to find. Cheers

[tbonesullivan]

Roughly 20yrs ago Yamaha moved the winds department from the Saitama Prefecture(Tokyo area) down south to Hamamatsu(Shizuoka). During that move the original mandrels were tossed as scrap! I confirmed this with the head engineer recently. I was told that the model was indeed made for the Canadian Brass, but didn’t really catch on I guess. Sadly, they don’t even have the prototype anymore.

UGH, now that is indeed sad. So many musical innovations have been tossed to the curb, or left to rot in warehouses for decades. I wonder how many sets of mandrels for American tubas now waste away at the bottom of a landfill after the multiple moves that companies like Conn, Holton, King, Etc have undergone. "we can just make another" is NOT always true.

[joh_tuba]

I went and played this a couple weeks ago and told them everything that has since been posted in this thread.

The horn is beat to hell and because it's gold plated you'll never make it look nice again without replating the horn. Most of us can't afford to do that and frankly, the horn isn't worth it. The bottom bow has been pulled for dent work at some point in the past.. it needs LOTS more dent work and a proper cleaning and new bumpers etc.

In addition, the sales folks had no idea of the provenance or even a model number. I had to find it on the horn for them.. yeah, right next to the serial number.. why wasn't that noticed?

I told them it was worth at most $4k.. Their solution, was to update the website with more accurate information and drop the price from $15k to $13k.. it'll never sell.

That said, it is not a standard 661.

What makes it different:
1) The bore is smaller than a 661. It is 17.5mm vs 20.5mm.
2) the leadpipe enters the fifth valve a bit differently.. rather than doing the 'PT-Style' 90-degree entry it sports an entry more like that used on the JBL model PT tubas.
3) It's gold plated
4) the rotors are titanium

It plays rather nicely and has excellent intonation. Response is notably uneven with certain valve combinations but that might even out with familiarity with the horn.

The fifth valve has been converted to right thumb BUT whoever did it wasn't very good at building levers. I would toss it and start over. ALSO, the fifth valve is tuned shorter than a standard 'whole-step' so you would need to build a new fifth valve slide to play it like other modern horns.