Switching from a MW25 (maybe), need some recommendations

[Birdjosh]

Hey all,

So I'm looking for some very specific recommendations here. Hoping to find something that's better suited to the playing I do and the skillset I have. I'm a freelance jazz trombone and sousaphone player primarily. I work enough solely as a freelance musician to not have a day gig and keep my head above water financially which should give some insight into the level of play I need the horn to be capable of in terms of intonation, sound, and consistency. I'd say 90% of my tuba playing is either doubling in a pit orchestra or in a big band.

With all that said I'm also way out of my depth in trying to research all of the options new and old that would work given I have very little experience on different tubas and no real way to try a bunch to narrow it down as most people in the city do not play BBb.

I've been using the MW25 for a quite a while and just cannot get the hang of it while also getting the sound I'd like in the scenarios I play it in. I'd like to stay with a BBb horn as I don't want to learn a second set of fingerings for a double. I'd like switch to something with pistons as no matter how much time I put into rotors I always prefer the feel of the pistons on my Conn 20k. I'm also debating the merits of switching to a 3/4 horn but again out of my depth in trying to figure that one out without the ability to try a 3/4 in those situations.

Ideally it'd be in a price range similar to what I'd get out of the MW25 (decent shape) +$1000 or so. I'm counting on a few of you here that seem to have an infinite knowledge of horns and can help me narrow down the field at least a little. I'm also okay with the answer being just keep plugging away at the MW25 if that is the best option as well. Just figured after a couple years with it I'd feel more comfortable on it and like the sound better by now but given that answer is a no I figured I should maybe be open to the possibility of change.

Thanks in advance,

Josh

[toobagrowl]

The M-W 25 is a fine BBb tuba; one of my favorites You could maybe be more specific with what isn't working so well for you on that tuba. Have you tried different mouthpieces on that tuba? The low register can be a little stuffy with a mpc that is too small. Also, a larger mpc can 'open up' the sound if that's what you want.
Are you looking for a different type of sound? The M-W 25 is a very German-made/German-style tall rotary BBb tuba, with a 'throaty', yet warm sound.
It is Meinl-Weston's equivalent to Miraphone's 187 BBb.

I get the sense you are looking for a broader, 'mellower' type of tuba sound from what you posted. The King 2341 is a good piston BBb with that type of sound, but will have a bit less 'horsepower' than the M-W 25.
There are a plethora of Chinese BBb tubas of all types, but I'll let the others here talk about them.

[tbonesullivan]

What kind of issues are you having with the MW-25? Just not getting the sound you like, or is it more of an intonation or overall issue? Things like a leak at a spit valve or one of the many joints can cause all kind of issues, and are easily fixed. Over the years solder joints can go "cold" and can break/leak without any type of mistreatment.

[MN_TimTuba]

For BBb piston tubas, when you don't need to support a big orchestra or large wind band, here are a few suggestions probably in your price range that others haven't mentioned yet -
1) Wessex Oregon, is listed as 3/4, but listed measurements indicate same general size as the newer King 2341 with larger bore - https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/bb ... egon-tb336" target="_blank
2) Wessex Dragon, full sized horn - https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/bb ... agon-tb484" target="_blank
3) Packer JP179B, Packer's improved version of the venerable Yamaha Pro model YBB 621, with larger bore - https://www.jpmusicalinstruments.com/pr ... p179b-tuba" target="_blank (tip - contact Joe S/Bloke directly)
4) Mack TU220L; yes, it's a rotor horn, but great bore size, 7/8 size, would be a great compact horn if you do some playing in tight quarters - http://www.mackbrass.com/TU220L_BB.php" target="_blank . I"ve played the Packer version of this horn, it's a very nice horn

All these new horns have good warranties.
There are, of course, numerous used horns under $5,000, check the Dillon site for some ideas

Best of luck - let us know what you decide on.

[MN_TimTuba]

Unless I'm mis-reading the OP's statement, he's up to spending $1000 PLUS his current horn, not just $1000 alone.

[Scubatuba]

Good post- The MW25 is a big horn for what you are doing. A smaller horn that is great but still big is the B&S GR51. MY recommendation for you is the MW hojo series- "small" 4/4 BBb in front action piston or rotor. Punchy and great sound. You are a doubler and you get what you pay for- a horn that delivers and is great in the pit with minimal hassle Since you already play a MW you know what to expect.

[Birdjosh]

Hey all thank you so much for the recommendations it is greatly appreciated for someone who isn't a gear guy.

My budget is indeed $1000 plus what I can sell the MW25 for so thanks for clearing that up Tim!

The MW25 isn't a bad horn at all just I think not the right horn for me. I'm using a Chris Olka CB2 with both it and my 20k as I like the tone flexibility it offers me (I can push it either brighter or darker depending on my approach). It has a great sound just one that is very dark and broad. It worked very well in the few classical gigs I've played on it but just isn't quite the sound for commercial and big band stuff which is the majority of my tuba playing (excluding sousa here). Looking for a brighter and punchy sound for these situations. Man describing tone with words sucks. For a clearer picture I'm looking at a sound concept closer to that or Earl McIntyre and/or Bob Stewart on Carla Bley's recordings (Very Very Simple and Battleship respectively).

I'd like to stick to BBb simply because it's a double and it'd be nice to have the same fingerings for the sousa, euphonium, and tuba especially since I do a ton of NOLA brass band work which has me constantly thinking and improvising in BBb fingerings.

For the pistons vs rotors it's simply because despite having put the time into the MW25 (which I realize I've had for 4 years now actually) the rotors just feel foreign. Though I did have it recommended I change them out from the old s linkage style so that may be a key factor but it still doesn't address the tone issue.

An added question since I've had a couple older American (I believe all 6/4) tubas pop up in my budget. How do they compare sound wise? My understanding is bigger generally equals darker but also that German sound concept is darker regardless of size. Once again thanks for the help as I'm pretty limited to CC tubas here as that's what the tuba players I know well enough to try their gear use (and the local music shop is all either CC, student, or brand new and way out of my budget). This was much easier for trombone where I could try nearly every small bore on the market new or used to pick the one that made executing my sound concept the easiest.

Cheers,

Josh

[Ace]

You might be interested in a small BBb Jupiter 482. Comparatively inexpensive, four front pistons, nice sound and good intonation, light weight. I bought one from Baltimore Brass about 15 years ago and was very satisfied. Possibly, it is no longer in production, but a good used one would be nice to find.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com//brass- ... 4-bbb-tuba" target="_blank

Ace

[toobagrowl]

Good post- The MW25 is a big horn for what you are doing. A smaller horn that is great but still big is the B&S GR51.

The M-W 25 is a little taller, but isn't the GR-51 actually slightly larger in the body? I'd say they are roughly the same large 4/4+ ish size; some say they are 5/4 size tubas.

Hey all thank you so much for the recommendations it is greatly appreciated for someone who isn't a gear guy.

My budget is indeed $1000 plus what I can sell the MW25 for so thanks for clearing that up Tim!

Josh

Glad to help I know I was the first here to mention the King 2341 as a good replacement tuba for your preferences. But you should also keep your eyes peeled for good-condition, used B&S/VMI 3301/3302 BBb tubas. The 3301/3302 (4 and 5 valve models) are excellent all-around short, 4/4, piston BBb tubas very comparable to the King 2341. They are great players, and VMI-made. IMO, I think the 3301/3302 are actually better than the King 2341 tubas -- at least better than the current/short/fixed-bell model.