HELP! Contras topic

[mwlorrison893]

Hello all you tubenetters,

The band director and myself (assistant) are debating the topic of switching to contras from the sousas we have. The students want contras and we have 6 tubas in marching band.
First, we have 8 Silver Conn 20Ks in really good shape, like crazy good shape for high school and then we have 4 or 5 silver Jupiter sousas that are in good shape too. We would obviously need to sell these to purchase the new or "newer" used contras.
What brand, size, and why or why not do you support or not support contras in your band or personal opinion?
This would be a big noticeable step forward in my opinion for the marching arts in southern WV of which were we reside. The BD likes this idea but of course cost is the big issue, which I TOTALLY agree!
I've never played one myself because I'm typically a sousa man but after hearing the sound that contras produce; i'm loving them on the field.

Any and all help would be appreciated. Also, silver plated is a must as it matches our band and preferred used but like new, new, newish condition.

[SousaWarrior9]

If you have good sousas already (and 20Ks in good shape are some of the best) PLEASE don't get rid of them unless they're worn out or damaged beyond playability

I understand the visual aesthetic of a marching band is an important factor, and the popularity of drum corps have made many bands want to emulate their style, thereby making contras "in" right now, but I believe the sound should be paramount to the look, even in a marching band. I see no need for a huge new investment if what you have now works.

To clarify: I'm not anti-marching tuba. I like the system blue ones the best probably and I like the way they look on the field (I'm a drum corps fan, too), but I am opposed to bands discarding perfectly good instuments to follow a trend.

But at the end if the day, I'm just a guy with an opinion, do what you must, but I vote to keep the sousas, for what it's worth.

[oleirgens]

If you have good sousas already (and 20Ks in good shape are some of the best) PLEASE don't get rid of them unless they're worn out or damaged beyond playability

Because you don't want another contra affair, that's why.

[KyleMG]

For high school, I don't think contras are ever the right answer for a few reasons. Yes, they *in theory* play better and look better; however, they are also much more difficult to carry and to play well. I don't know the demographics of your band, but imagine you have a tiny freshman that comes in wanting to play tuba -- he or she is going to struggle to even hold the horn up, let alone carry or play it. There are benefits, but they are outweighed by all of the negatives.

[tbonesullivan]

I would worry about the potential damage to the Contras as well. They are quite a bit easier to drop than a Sousaphone, especially for high schoolers, who may not have the arm strength needed until they are juniors or seniors.

Yes, they do look cool, but not when they fall on the ground.

[rollo]

There is a lot of "yeah, they look cool but..." reasoning here, and I don't think we should be too dismissive of that. Marching band is at least 50% a visual medium, and the look of your ensemble is important. Now, my opinion comes with huge grains of salt having only ever marched with a contra style horn. But as a performer, I've always appreciated that with a contra there are far fewer visual limitations on what you can do, really allowing you to feel like a true equal member of the visual ensemble. Same goes for design when you are trying to write visual moments into your show, you can really treat most of the ensemble (brass anway) as one visual unit.

All that said, if you're sousaphones are in good shape, there are almost certainly better ways to spend the huge chunk of change making the switch to contras would take. Good to start the process now so you can try different models to see what works best for your ensemble so that in 10-15 years when your sousas really need replacing you'll already have all the info you need to make the best decision for your ensemble. My vote will always for for Yamaha contras. They could be better to be sure, but I don't feel that any of the other manufacturers have made an all around better horn.

[GC]

Contras may look cool, but they're not nearly as easy to handle as sousaphones. There's something to be said for having a center of mass within the body instead of high and to the left.

[BrassKicksArse]

I've played just about every contra on the market, and I've marched with a Jupiter and System Blue in the past. Personally, if you're going to go with contra's, I really dig the Yamaha's. I think they're the best all around. They're not super heavy, and they offer the best ergonomics for marching, while being pretty easy to make a decent sound. The Adams is alright, same with the Kanstul 4/4. System Blue's are junky and literally fall apart if you look at it the wrong way. They play pretty well though, and having a 4th valve is fun. The Jupiter is probably the heaviest I've encountered, but I enjoy playing them a lot. Definitely wouldn't consider them for high schoolers, as they're seriously a pain to march with. Decent ergonomics, but just way too heavy. I haven't played the MK2's, but apparently they've made them lighter. Another consideration is the convertible Yamaha 4/4. Decent tubas both in marching and concert form, so they can do double duty if you all need more concert horns too. Still, the Yamaha marching tuba is the best all around horn, and probably the most user friendly for high schoolers. Echoing others, Sousa's definitely get the job done. One concern is what they're going to be with them in the stands. I'd be way more afraid of having contra's in the stands than sousa's.

[Adam C.]

Shoulder tubas (I refuse to use the term "contra" since we've long since left GG bugles behind) have a smaller sound than sousaphones and have more potential for problems with smaller kids. If you're seriously into the modern trend of body movement and dance with occasional whole notes, I suppose shoulder tubas would make it easier to do that type of thing. However, it seemed like most of the BOA grand nationals bands this year used sousaphones with no trouble.

If a school owns multiple quality sousaphones in good playing shape, it seems fiscally irresponsible of the directors to have the students switch away from that equipment.

[tbonesullivan]

Looking at the Yamaha "Convertible" tubas, how exactly does one move the valves when it is on the shoulder, using that leadpipe? Or are the valves just left in place? They also have a convertible euphonium, and of course the standard "contrabass bugle" I'm used to seeing.

[groth]

I still remember the disappointment hearing my college marching band for the first time after they made the shift to contras. The sound couldn't compare to the king sousas they replaced. I find contras thin and bright. Visually they may be more interesting, but there is no comparison in tone.

This..concert tubas are for your lap.

[cWEED]

I've always heard that sousas don't blend well with other instruments. They've always sounded fine to me, but I've only been playing for 6 months.

[alfredr]

And then there's this: My son, now about 35, has shoulder problems that he says either came from, or were made worse by, marching with a contra for five drum corps seasons. He didn't start that as a high school freshman.

[GC]

Meh. Sousaphones can blend just fine with other instruments. It's that some players don't blend, and I doubt putting them on a different instrument would help. The biggest problem I've seen with a lot of sousaphone sections is that commonly the valve slides are not pulled as needed.

[Billy M.]

Meh. Sousaphones can blend just fine with other instruments. It's that some players don't blend, and I doubt putting them on a different instrument would help. The biggest problem I've seen with a lot of sousaphone sections is that commonly the valve slides are not pulled as needed.

Or worn correctly....

[GC]

Why do so many pictures of helicons feature people holding them in the exact manner that's been criticized here, with the bell pointing completely to the player's left?

[Leland]

Contras are really good at exposing whether or not the kids can march well.

Drawbacks: can be a hassle in parades; are definitely a hassle with flip folders; band-style swinging side-to-side looks rough and is harder on the player's back; ergonomics may not be improved; heavy for smaller kids when carried in front.

Benefits: easier to have good posture while playing (IMO); ergonomics may be improved; "encourage" faster memorization of everything; more flexibility for dance visuals (if your band does that sort of thing).