End of Cerveny?

[bisontuba]

From Facebook...

https://imgur.com/gallery/dVr4wQa" target="_blank

[bort]

Well, that is very surprising. Actually, I'm pretty surprised to hear that there were only 27 people working there. Only imagine how many people used to work there back in the day. it also makes me think that with only 27 people, they may not have been so surprised.

Besides, after 200 years of building instruments, hadn't they produced enough tto ast the world the rest of eternity anyway?

[AndyCat]

Amati/Cerveny was bought by Geneva a few years ago. Apparently the workers haven't been paid for a while.

[bort]

Amati/Cerveny was bought by Geneva a few years ago. Apparently the workers haven't been paid for a while.

Geneva?

[groth]

There are no sources in that post. Not saying it isn't true, but before we get in a panic, who did he hear this from?

Uwe Schneider is a reputable source in East Germany, if anyone would know it would be him. I don't think anyone has anything to gain by reporting this, it's just a sad fact.

[cjk]

just 5 years after the company B&S Markneukirchen has been closed down

Really? The B&S factory was closed down?

[bisontuba]

Posting on Facebook by Mike Green...FYI:

When the Amati group was taken over around 5 years ago, part of the cost was to settle the debt of over £2,000,000. Which was about 30-40% of the cost. The place was in chaos and very badly ran. The current owners have been 'spinning plates' since then.
They would set up a new system only to find that next time they went back the system wasn't being used and things were being done the 'old way' orders were not getting completed on time and things were just chaos. Geneva did try to improve things and get it on an even keel, but just didn't have enough capital it seems.
The instruments were, 5 years ago, being sold at a loss! But to get the prices up to profit was difficult. Plus there were issues with distributership. People were advertising old stock instruments in Italy and Germany cheaper than I could buy wholesale.

[vespa50sp]

That's to bad, I would expect as typical someone would buy the Cerveny name and just keep building them at some point (maybe China).

I've been looking for a smaller, lighter horn lately and was looking at the Arions. As an alternate I might purchase a 681 from a buddy I had coffee with this morning. He was kind of surprised at the Cerveny news. He's a former instrument repairman who really keeps his instruments pristine. I'm looking forward to trying that horn out even though the rep for it is uneven.

[vespa50sp]

Yeah, the 279 Packer is definitely on the list. It's just tough to find a place near St Paul to try one out.

[Three Valves]

Musicians Friend still expects them to ship 5-10-20

[vespa50sp]

Musicians Friend still expects them to ship 5-10-20

Other places are mentioning spring availability for the 683 also. There are still some 783's available new also (the one built with red brass). The fiscally smart thing would be for me to get the 683 if it's nice, or the Packer because it is a nice horn, but I feel like being older I should just pull the pin on what I want if it available. I just have to sort out the taxes from retirement last year first.

[vespa50sp]

Musicians Friend still expects them to ship 5-10-20

Other places are mentioning spring availability for the 683 also. There are still some 783's available new also (the one built with red brass). The fiscally smart thing would be for me to get the 683 if it's nice, or the Packer because it is a nice horn, but I feel like being older I should just pull the pin on what I want if it available (a new horn is cheaper than a good used car). I just have to sort out the taxes from retirement last year first.

[vespa50sp]

Now if I could find a pre-1990 Arion, all bets are off

It's possible a pre 1990 Arion could turn up. Uwe Schneider is freelance musician and business economist out of Germany who has a lot of Cerveny's go up on his Tuba/Helicon brokerage site, https://www.schneideruwe.de/tubashop.de He also is the moderator for Kaiserbass Tuba Helicon Forum on Facebook. I think about half his business is in Cerveny's.

[oleirgens]

If I had a choice between a Packer and a cerveny made in the last 25 years, I would choose the Packer. Newer cerveny tubas are wildly inconsistent for built quality, and as a new tuba, they are not cheap at all, and the resell value is terrible.

I have a Packer and had a Cerveny, and even though the Cerveny was a good horn, and with rotary valves whereas my Packer has piston valves, I agree with you, also in terms of material thickness, the Packer feeling like an armored vehicle compared to the more cars-produced-in-the-uk-during-the-70s feeling of the Cerveny.

I understand the concern for (another) european instrument factory going out of business (although unsupported from other news sources), but as long as the chinese built instruments are steadily improving in quality, should we worry? My Macbook and my iPhone are built in China, along with all other electronic equipment in my home, and I do not consider that as problematic, so why is there a problem with instruments not built in Europe (or the US for you guys living stateside)?

[vespa50sp]

To me it's not really a China vs. thing. It is really more of a "item with a soul" deal. I've been riding Vespa's for many years. They have a certain charm as Italy's answer for personal transport after WWII and the Mod Revolution in the 60's. I've owned versions from the 60's, 70's, those made in India and a current modern vespa (2016). I can feel the history when I ride.

The quality was frankly variable and when we go on long rides you'd have a chance of wrenching as much as riding. Since 2006 no more. They built a modern factory with modern quality control and I got a buddy with a single cylinder Vespa that has 50,000 miles on it (without ever opening the motor). So I can still ride a single cylinder, air cooled Vespa with a lineage going directly back to the first bike, whereas Lambrettas have been gone since the 70's.

I wish the older instrument manufacturers had adapted and built a higher quality stuff. It just makes me a bit sad to see them go.

[toobagrowl]

This is sad if true Cerveny was the oldest brass instrument maker still around, and they made many great tubas!

[oleirgens]

To me it's not really a China vs. thing. It is really more of a "item with a soul" deal. I've been riding Vespa's for many years. They have a certain charm as Italy's answer for personal transport after WWII and the Mod Revolution in the 60's. I've owned versions from the 60's, 70's, those made in India and a current modern vespa (2016). I can feel the history when I ride.

Being a former Vespa rider myself, I admit they have a certain charm and history, but all to often "charm" and "personality" means "unreliable" and "costly to maintain and/or repair". Maybe its just me, but I prefer a boring, but reliable Japanese car (or chinese tuba) over a "charming", but unstable and high-maintanence italian car (or czheck tuba) any day. YMMV of course.

[Donn]

Of course it's clear it isn't just you, there are plenty of people buying the Chinese stuff. Whether it's reliable or not.

It may be interesting to think about applying vespa50sp's historical perspective to the future. Say 50 years from now, maybe we consider for example Jinbao's history of tuba production. Ignoring the practical problems with even thinking about that (there won't be any old tubas with a "Jinbao" label, for one thing.) Will the factors that have made China the world's factory, continue to support musical instrument production there in 2070?

[Matt Walters]

from a trusted source in the UK that production of Cerveny is moving to another Amati building in Kraslice as that is the honest truth.

This is the answer I got about the status of Cerveny.

[bisontuba]

from a trusted source in the UK that production of Cerveny is moving to another Amati building in Kraslice as that is the honest truth.

This is the answer I got about the status of Cerveny.

If that is from Mike in the UK, that is great news....